Roleplay Limits

[Deleted]

Alright so this is a topic which is being brought up frequently. I've been quite vocal about this on the boards previously, so now I'm just curious what the rest of you guys think. So hit a button and/or say your piece on this topic. 

[Joey Flash]

After a long discussion on the chat, I vote yes to limits.

The overriding thought was 5000 on Slam, 10,000 on PPV's.

The WCF prides itself upon being the 'working mans' federation and such, I feel that there is a ceiling that has crept higher and higher around what it takes to compete at main event level. Not only does it limit people with more commitments than others but it can straight up dishearten others, I understand that people have stories to tell and that everyone here is fuckin awesome at what they do, but answer truly have you ever read a roleplay that's beyond 10, 12k words long? Let alone three in a row for the main event of a PPV, do you get a feel for the character, do you enjoy the story they've spent the time crafting?

Probably not, because you haven't read it.

All my point is going to be, is that we should give the writers the due they deserve and the audience they have earned with their great storytelling, shoot and personalities. I never want to skip a roleplay but have found myself doing it more and more as I've been here, not through lack of care, but simply because it's too fucking long.

I mean shit, I know I'll end up stretching myself to writing massive roleplays against certain opponents, and that other people probably do the same. The biggest qualm I've seen with regards to 'main event' level from others isn't the skill level, it's word count. I think we should reward all writers equally, not just ones with the most free time.

This is 100% not a knock toward ANY writer at all, but just a generalization. I want to read everyone's roleplays and for your stories and worlds to come to life as beautifully and vibrantly as you tell them. 

That's my stance. Love you all <3

[Gemini Battle]

I don't think a limit needs to be in place (though I voted yes) but perhaps a judging rubric.

Example (we did something like this in another Fed)

Shoot=20 points
-this includes intensity and content of the shoot. Originality and march relevance

Personal story development=10 points.
-this includes the story you told about your character to explain why he is the way he is and does the things he does.

Ease of reading=15 points
-were not all novelists. But our rp has to be easy to read. Is it clunky, are there egregious grammar and spelling errors. Is the lay out clunky how is the flow?(nothing to do with coding)

Je ne se pas= 5 points
-just that something you can't explain. Do you get tingly when reading it. Do you feel nothing... Do you feel angry or happy. Is this the intended reaction. This is just your overall feeling of the rp and any emotions they elicit. Often times in my experience this is the deciding factor in judging.

That last one when I used to judge that was the sole judging criteria. I couldn't tell you what made a good to... I just knew when I read it. That's how I felt about jonny flys second rp, the one Seth named rp of the week. It just got me. I read it and thought...holy shit that's how it's done. I can't tell you why I just felt that way Seth got the same feeling.

Was the story better than dunes? Was the shoot better than Corey's? Was the grammar better than something Celeste can write? Probably not on all fronts but it was the best of the week because of I don't know why.

I'm not proposing this as an idea, just shooting the shit.

[Thomas Uriel Bates]

I am against limits. That being said, I don't always go 10,000 words in my roleplays, or anything of the sort. I do write, and I do try to tell a story. Not just a "Oh my guy's a professional wrestler with a match coming up", but a story of his journey through life, both good and bad.

Look at it this way; if you get into a groove, and start writing about something in your character's background, next thing you know, you've got over 5,000 (including your shoot that hopefully was worked into your roleplay). Now you have to go back, cut and edit out parts just so you can get right at the limit or below it. Now your story is cut up, doesn't quite make as much sense. It's not the story you wanted to tell.

I do not believe we should be limited in our stories. If you don't want to read the background, just read the shoot. If you don't think the person's writing was enough to draw you in, give them feedback that might improve their writing.

Is it time consuming? Yes, without a shadow of a doubt. If the story is good, then it is time well spent. You get to read a story created by one of the many great writers in this federation. If the story wasn't good, if it didn't draw you in, then you can help them reach that goal.

This is a forum for writers. Yes, we write as if our characters are beating the hell out of each other every single week, but we're writers none the less. Many of us are great writers, and many of us are willing to work with others to get them to that level. Limiting that creativity I feel would only hinder the writing, and hinder a writer's growth.

[Deleted]

I like that idea Gemini, but I feel like unless a judging team is established that would be wayyyyy too much hard work for Seth marking rps like that.

[Deleted]

I see where you're coming from TUB and I'm thinking perhaps instead of a limit it should be a guideline?

[Gemini Battle]

Jun 7, 2015 14:36:33 GMT -5 Katherine Phoenix said:

I like that idea Gemini, but I feel like unless a judging team is established that would be wayyyyy too much hard work for Seth marking rps like that.

Yes... This requires a team of judges grading things objecti Ely as possible except for the one part that's totally subjective. Hence just saying it and not meaning it

[Bryan "Buzz" Worthy]

No limits. I'm of the belief the less rules the better, especially when it comes to telling people how to write.

[Kaz]

I agree with Joey 98%!

Maybe not a word limit but perhaps a soft cap? It should be "fed"iquette (and just general non dickery) to not absolutely overkill your opponent with promos over 10K.

I know the "back to basics" "working man" tagline is what drew me in because I got shit to do and try to limit my promos to a 5-8k limit. (Unless I have a title match or it's a PPV and I'll grind out two promos around 5 a piece.)

Same as Joey, I'm not knocking those who do write these massive promos. It takes an inordinate amount of talent, patience, and time to pop em out, but I feel like I would be stressing myself out to do it so I can only imagine whomever sitting there wide eyed off a six hour writing binge and your 12th cup of coffee hammering away at the keyboard, haha, and I gotta admit that doesn't sound fun at all.

I feel like the talent is really stacked right now, and nobody needs to be doing these huge promos to maybe guarentee the victory. A coin flip is just as fun and it puts everybody on even competitive footing.

That's just my two cents, and feel free to disagree with me.

[Howard Black]

I side more with Gemini. I was in a fed with no RP limit but but a system which gave 1 point per 100 words; the result would be 10k RPs about nothing to score 100 easy points. So a soft cap was implemented, capping at 10 points (1k words), meaning that you didn't get any more points for word count after that. The result? Shorter RPs.

[Deleted]

A word limit makes things more competitive and it makes it harder to put out something quality. It's easier to create something awesome with no word limit.

If you as a person who writes long RPs and thinks this squashes creativity, then my recommendation is this: write one more RP than the limit for Slam or PPVs and have one RP be more story driven and character development. That's what I did in the past (even when I was winning a lot and main eventing) was to do one RP where it was story driven and about CD, then the other two RPs I did were a mixture of CD and shoot.

Jun 7, 2015 14:33:53 GMT -5 Thomas Uriel Bates said:

I do not believe we should be limited in our stories. If you don't want to read the background, just read the shoot. If you don't think the person's writing was enough to draw you in, give them feedback that might improve their writing.

Is it time consuming? Yes, without a shadow of a doubt. If the story is good, then it is time well spent. You get to read a story created by one of the many great writers in this federation. If the story wasn't good, if it didn't draw you in, then you can help them reach that goal.

This is a forum for writers. Yes, we write as if our characters are beating the hell out of each other every single week, but we're writers none the less. Many of us are great writers, and many of us are willing to work with others to get them to that level. Limiting that creativity I feel would only hinder the writing, and hinder a writer's growth.

Only reading what you want though doesn't work here in WCF. This unfortunately isn't just a forum for writers. It's a competitive fantasy wrestling company that we're wrestlers for. If Seth is being fair, he reads the entire thing, including what the average person may not read. As Joey pointed out, the issue here is being able to stay competitive.

[K. L. Henson]

I generally write 5K or just a little over which is the "suggested limit" but I am 100% against a limit. There should be etiquette but that is it. A suggestion at most and if you respect people, you will try to work inside it. But with that said, I am not going to write in a place with a word limit. I don't mean to say that like an ultimatum or anything or sound like a dick but it is just the truth, with all due respect.

[Deleted]

I just write until I feel that I'm happy with it. Don't really want or need anymore limitations than I already have now.

This subject is getting old, fast.

No limits, and I'm not going to justify it, because every time I write it out, it just sounds either angry, condescending, or downright mean. So take that to heart as to how I'm beginning to feel about this subject.

[Logan]

Jun 7, 2015 14:51:40 GMT -5 Bryan "Buzz" Worthy said:

No limits. I'm of the belief the less rules the better, especially when it comes to telling people how to write.

Agreed. We already have a one RP per match limit, and ever since WCF took up that rule this place has flourished with talent.

Before that not a lot of people hung around when someone would bust out 5 short RP's to beat the one awesome one they wrote.

[Deleted]

Unless it's a stone cold rule/limit, people won't follow it. I've seen guideline and etiquette mentioned in here, but in a competitive environment like this, that type of guideline or etiquette doesn't work. Maybe it will at first, but eventually it'll stop. That's the way it has been in the past when the limit was removed.

One thing I would like to point out and that I'm curious about is how the "no limit" group feels about the argument regarding the amount of time people are allotted or have allotted for things like this. It seems like the "no limit" responses have revolved around creativity while ignoring the comments about outside obligations others have that prevent them from these incredibly long roleplays. I'd really like to see that responded to.

[Joey Flash]

Jun 7, 2015 15:24:22 GMT -5 @gravedigger1982 said:

Unless it's a stone cold rule/limit, people won't follow it. I've seen guideline and etiquette mentioned in here, but in a competitive environment like this, that type of guideline or etiquette doesn't work. Maybe it will at first, but eventually it'll stop. That's the way it has been in the past when the limit was removed.

One thing I would like to point out and that I'm curious about is how the "no limit" group feels about the argument regarding the amount of time people are allotted or have allotted for things like this. It seems like the "no limit" responses have revolved around creativity while ignoring the comments about outside obligations others have that prevent them from these incredibly long roleplays. I'd really like to see that responded to.

[K. L. Henson]

Jun 7, 2015 15:24:22 GMT -5 @gravedigger1982 said:

Unless it's a stone cold rule/limit, people won't follow it. I've seen guideline and etiquette mentioned in here, but in a competitive environment like this, that type of guideline or etiquette doesn't work. Maybe it will at first, but eventually it'll stop. That's the way it has been in the past when the limit was removed.

One thing I would like to point out and that I'm curious about is how the "no limit" group feels about the argument regarding the amount of time people are allotted or have allotted for things like this. It seems like the "no limit" responses have revolved around creativity while ignoring the comments about outside obligations others have that prevent them from these incredibly long roleplays. I'd really like to see that responded to.

I am of the personal belief one doesn't have to respond with a mile to beat a mile. If anything length can hurt an RP but it is all about how you use it. Sometimes a mile of an RP is super boring and then a shorter RP can win.

In terms of Seth not having the time to read them all. I think Seth should chime in. We shouldn't assume, we should ask him.

[Deleted]

Jun 7, 2015 15:28:24 GMT -5 K. L. Henson said:

I am of the personal belief one doesn't have to respond with a mile to beat a mile. If anything length can hurt an RP but it is all about how you use it. Sometimes a mile of an RP is super boring and then a shorter RP can win.

That's true, but the person with the longer RP typically has a higher chance of it being something higher quality that can beat the shorter roleplay. I mean we've only had a couple of lengthy RPers in the history of WCF who didn't bust out like 99% high quality material. If we had a history of fluff writers on a regular basis, then that would be different.

[Kaz]

I don't think we should devole into any arguements here. The conversation has been civil and right now it's more or less a "what if" scenario.

Also, nobody should he afraid to share their opinion. We're all grown ups just trying to play some fantasy wrestling, yo.

That sounded less geeky when I was thinking it.

[Deleted]

I don't think it's devolved into an argument. We can disagree and have a discussion.