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Post by Corey Black on Jun 7, 2015 16:18:23 GMT -5
The idea is equating the time to the words. They have 60 minutes, we have 5k words. They have all week to prepare, as do we.
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Post by Logan on Jun 7, 2015 16:27:50 GMT -5
The idea is equating the time to the words. They have 60 minutes, we have 5k words. They have all week to prepare, as do we. Earlier point I made could not have been any more simple or clear. They have 60 mins to score as many points as possible, we have a week to write as many words as possible. You mother facks create this thread just to argue? I can't make a point without it being ripped apart? Katherine, make me a sandwich, about to pop here. NEED A SANDWICH. |
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Post by Steve Orbit on Jun 7, 2015 16:31:35 GMT -5
I'm reasonably inactive because I can't throw down more than 5k a week. Even my best 5k won't beat a lame 12k. Let's not fool ourselves here. Quality over quantity is encouraged but effort comes into play. I just don't have the time. Is it unfair? Not really. Is it discouraging? 100%. Same here. I have a few hours a week tops that I can use to RP. I've always sacrificed and found time in the past but the word counts have gotten bigger and bigger especially in the last year. As CD said, I just don't have the time between working 60 hours a week, having a wife and kids, etc. And that's fine, its the way it is. But I had such a great run with Orbit that I can't bring myself to come back and not be able to compete because I don't have the time. I am contemplating bringing in a brand new character and just write whatever I can, not caring about wins or having a reputation to uphold. |
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Post by Bryan "Buzz" Worthy on Jun 7, 2015 16:32:57 GMT -5
Unless it's a stone cold rule/limit, people won't follow it. I've seen guideline and etiquette mentioned in here, but in a competitive environment like this, that type of guideline or etiquette doesn't work. Maybe it will at first, but eventually it'll stop. That's the way it has been in the past when the limit was removed. One thing I would like to point out and that I'm curious about is how the "no limit" group feels about the argument regarding the amount of time people are allotted or have allotted for things like this. It seems like the "no limit" responses have revolved around creativity while ignoring the comments about outside obligations others have that prevent them from these incredibly long roleplays. I'd really like to see that responded to. My thoughts: In all of my many runs here in WCF, I think the longest role play I've ever written was 6000 words. And that damn near killed me. I don't have the drive or creativity to write more than that. And while I think most of the 10000 word plus role plays I've read don't need to be as long as they are- "Brevity is the soul of wit" after all- you don't go ahead and tell others who have the time or inclination not to write whatever they want. There's always the option of approaching the people you're competing against and trying to come up with some kind of word or rp limit on your own (which I've done), but one that is mandated is wrong. This is a game. Some people are going to have more time to commit to it than others. Just like some people are going to have more talent than others. I wouldn't tell Bobby Cairo he has to stop being so damn funny while still on point with his writing, and I wouldn't tell him his has to limit his word count either. |
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Post by Corey Black on Jun 7, 2015 17:55:17 GMT -5
Logan - the other analogy fits better.
Buzz - your argument helps the other side more than your own views. Haha.
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Post by Bryan "Buzz" Worthy on Jun 7, 2015 17:56:36 GMT -5
Logan - the other analogy fits better. Buzz - your argument helps the other side more than your own views. Haha. How so? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 18:13:38 GMT -5
Probably what made the argument for the limit was your own example plus the Hamlet quote. A limit puts everyone on the same playing field. The idea is equating the time to the words. They have 60 minutes, we have 5k words. They have all week to prepare, as do we. That still is ignoring the full-time vs. hobby point I was making, but whatever. The debate over it is pointless since Logan didn't want his comments debated. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 18:21:02 GMT -5
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Post by Bryan "Buzz" Worthy on Jun 7, 2015 18:22:35 GMT -5
Probably what made the argument for the limit was your own example plus the Hamlet quote. A limit puts everyone on the same playing field. The idea is equating the time to the words. They have 60 minutes, we have 5k words. They have all week to prepare, as do we. That still is ignoring the full-time vs. hobby point I was making, but whatever. The debate over it is pointless since Logan didn't want his comments debated. My own personal experience and the quote have nothing to do with whether or not I think its right to expect some kind of word count limit for role plays. Unless Seth wants one, of course; he's the one who has to read all of them. I only included them to point out that I'm not one of the people who did write especially long rps, and despite this fact I'm still not in favor of mandating a word count to make things more "fair". |
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Post by Thomas Uriel Bates on Jun 7, 2015 18:38:17 GMT -5
Hobby vs Profession
Here's one way to look at it. In a profession, a job, you have certain guidelines and regulations you must follow. Do this this way, do it that way, no that's not good enough, do it again. We are just a hobby, so why put so much limitation on a hobby?
Some people can write great roleplays at 10,000 words, and some can write great roleplays and barely ever go past 5,000. Why stunt their creativity?
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Post by Corey Black on Jun 7, 2015 19:44:18 GMT -5
Why stunt my or anyone else's progress by having a life outside writing? A word limit would level the playing field. That's the entire idea. I'd like to work with a lot of people here but I don't because the RP contest wouldn't even be close.
Buzz, your arguments seemed to favor anyone who doesn't have the time to drop 16k. The first part, anyway.
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Post by Logan on Jun 7, 2015 20:11:27 GMT -5
LOL all day. You guys. Unbelievable.
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Post by marcmayhem on Jun 7, 2015 20:13:57 GMT -5
Holy cow we got a debate going. Can we get a definite answer from seth if it's a realistic feat for a 5k word count vs a 10k word count.
I haven't voted yet but I'm leaning toward the limit..
However is a person penalized for going over or going under 5k?
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Post by Seth on Jun 7, 2015 20:14:40 GMT -5
It took me a long, long time to adopt ANY limits - every match used to be "Hardcore Title match" style.
At this point in time this isn't something I'm interested in doing. If I went off the deep end and started giving wins to dudes that had 10k word RPs with 90% non-wrestling-stuff and 10% wrestling, then yes, word count would be an issue. And I've seen that style of stuff a lot. But in my experience, anyone that sticks around here for any amount of time that writes long promos, they end up being mid-to-high quality.
If I did feel like this was a real issue I'd add "not too long, this fed is for people with lives" to the list of things I look for when deciding winners, and judge against super long roleplays accordingly.
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Post by Seth on Jun 7, 2015 20:16:26 GMT -5
Holy cow we got a debate going. Can we get a definite answer from seth if it's a realistic feat for a 5k word count vs a 10k word count. I haven't voted yet but I'm leaning toward the limit.. However is a person penalized for going over or going under 5k? In general a 5K RP has very little chance against a 10K RP - nor should it! I mean, this is assuming we're in WCF and MOST people are operating on an equal-ish playing field, quality wise. If you get a really shitty 10K RP vs a really good 5K one... that'll make a difference. But that kind of example isn't going to be the case here. Or if the 10K RP had nothing to do with the match, they'd lose in that scenario, too. But we're at the point where few people make that mistake. |
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Post by Seth on Jun 7, 2015 20:20:32 GMT -5
Also, I don't have time to use a thesaurus or read books in my free time, which would improve my writing here. Can we make a ban on using words that are too big? That way everyone that knows bigger words than me is on the same playing field.
This is an extreme example, but the fact is we're all in different stages of life with different amount of free time, different motivation to spend that time writing, etc. The playing field will never be equal. People are too different.
Also, I'm too lazy to put every roleplay into a word counter.
Lastly, I think we all tend to care a little too much about wins and losses. If someone doesn't want to try in a match or feud because their opponent writes look roleplays, I think they're missing the point of e-fedding to an extent.
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Post by Jeff Purse on Jun 7, 2015 21:26:58 GMT -5
First off, I voted yes, but I thought that was asking roleplay numbers. But I have an opinion on this too.
We all do this as a competitive hobby. COMPETITIVE being the keyword, more so even that hobby. Its what separates stuff like this and like...whittling wood. Let me give you a couple of examples of what I mean.
A. I act. I love to act. I go to auditions because I love to act. Thats what gets me there. But at the audition I am competing for a role. A specific role that I want. I want to "win" that role. I go out there and try my best, and sometimes someone gets a role over me because they 'fit' the part better, which is a bullshit thing to judge on.
B. I enter a number of short story competitions. I write almost every day, even when I am not here, working on short stories for possible anthologies or in a paper or something. I enter a lot of these stories into competitions because I think they are good and I want to win the competition. What brought me to the competition was my love of writing, but I still want to win.
Thats enough. I originally planned three examples, but you get my point. So yes we all love to write as a hobby, thats obvious, we wouldn't be here. The love for writing and wrestling is what brings us here. But we still want to win. Its the same concept. No matter what, we want to win. All of us. I call bullshit on anyone who says "I am just here to write I don't care about Win/Loss". You aren't here solely to write, you are here to win as well. Win Loss may not matter as much to certain people, example me. It doesn't matter that much. I understand that there will be people who are better than me, who can write a better story that week, or whatever. I don't really care about it...to a point. Because I still want to win. I am just ok with losing.
I think everyone here is ok with losing, at least everyone who has made a point to the argument of having limits. I think the major point that a lot of poeple are missing is that yes we love to write but we also love to compete. The competition is an important part of this. It may not be the most important, but it is important. So it gets really discouraging when people bust out 12k rps, and they win all the time. Because they are goinig to because like everyone has said, there is no suck thing as a shitty 12k rp here. A great 12k rp beats a great 5k rp every day.
So its not so crazy that people would want a limit. It actually makes sense. A lot of competitive hobbies have stipulations like this. In fact all of them have rules to even the playing ground.
All that being said, I am on the side of no limits.
Because while these competitive hobbies have rules and stipulations, the people who can devote the most time to it usually win every time, because it is a hobby. Example:
I act, because I love it. Acting gets me to auditions, but I still want that part yadda yadda. I don't get that part, Bobby who gets all the lead roles gets it. He has been in acting classes his entire life. His parents got him a dialect coach. He doesn't have a social life he just studies acting technique. But shit he is good.
I can't cault Bobby for having more opportunities than I did. I can't say "Well you shouldn't get the part because you are better trained than I am." because thats petty. And unfair to Bobby. Just because he is better than me doesn't mean that he doesn't want the part equally as much.
Lets face it in any competitive thing, the guy who devotes the most time wins. And as someone who can't devote that much time to it, it being rping, I can't be pissed off that the guy who can wins. He still wants to win as much as I do. He just has more time to do it.
So are the grounds equal? Fuck no. I knew ICE Beckman was going to do well here because the first RP of his I ever looked at was long as shit. And the little that I read of it (being the first half) was good. He deserved it.
Is it fair for everyone though? Yes. I really think it is. It sucks that some people will probably always do a little worse even though they are great writers, but its something you kinda have to deal with in this kind of thing. A competition is a competition and the better person always wins. Because 9/10, both the 12k rp and the 5k rp are equal in "story". What else is there to judge other than length?
Does that makes sense?
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Post by Jeff Purse on Jun 7, 2015 21:28:05 GMT -5
But I get where people are coming from and why they are frustrated. It makes sense. They want to be competitive.
The real reason for this PS is that I don't care either way, if Seth makes limits, cool, if he leaves it like it is, cool.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 21:28:49 GMT -5
LOL all day. You guys. Unbelievable. Yep you're right. It's unbelievable that we all have differing opinions and want a discussion about something people in the fed feel strongly about one way or another. Unbelievable. |
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Post by Steve Orbit on Jun 7, 2015 21:46:44 GMT -5
Potentially pragmatic solution:
Introduce a new belt (or use an existing belt) and put a word limit on the RPs. Everybody who wants a limit can fight for that title.
Done.
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