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Post by Confederate News on Jul 4, 2015 18:55:40 GMT -5
A Second Civil War looming on the horizon?
By Davis Jefferson, Editor
Yesterday a protest through downtown Atlanta, Georgia was led by both the flag of the Confederate States of America and the flag once flown by Confederate General Robert E. Lee and several Virginia units. Among the leaders of this vast throng of proud sons and daughters of the South is former WCF star and Confederate Champion Doc Henry. Doc and his wife were just a part of the larger crowd gathered to protest the treatment and degrading attacks on what is considered a large symbol of this nations past. Though in more recent times the Confederate Flag as it is known, has been bastardized and used as a symbol of hate. Too often have people focused on the slavery issue and not acknowledged the other factors surrounding the Civil War.
When asked about his participation, Doc had this to say. "This [hatred of history] has gone on for far too long. I can understand taking down the flag off of official government buildings. After all, they aren't representing the CSA, rather the USA. Don't get me wrong, I'm violently proud to be an American, and will defend my country with my life if need be. However, there is a heritage here in the South. Proud of it or not, the Confederacy is a large part of our history. For many there is a familial connection. I look around at all the hatred towards a country that hasn't existed in over 150 years and I pity the poor souls who cannot let the past go. Yes the South lost, but we accept and are proud of our culture and heritage. These punks going around defacing Confederate memorials are lost souls drinking the kool ade of race batters and hate mongers."
Doc's wife also spoke, "As a proud black woman I am ashamed of my fellow members of color. Stop listening to the likes of Obama and the racist... I mean reverend Al Sharpton. This country has a past that isn't pretty, but if we continue to tear that past down and further fan the flames of racism Dr. King strove so hard to end, the all which he fought will be for naught as the past will repeat itself and another Civil War, or Revolution will occur.
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Post by Howard Black on Jul 4, 2015 21:52:27 GMT -5
@hblack
Under your logic, the Germans should fly the swastika because "Proud of it or not, [It's] an important part of [their] history". Or you could admit your flag was a symbol barely used by the Confederacy, resurrected by the Klu Klux Klan as a symbol of racist intimidation, and been distorted to be a symbol which it never was: a symbol of rural pride rather than its true origins in white pride.
Being from Nebraska, a Union state, I've seen a lot of your Confederate shit flown by rednecks in the country. And know what? For "a symbol of rural pride", every single one of them guys flying that flag likes saying "nigger". So before you wanna pontificate about the "real meaning" of that flag, how about you stop lying and just call yourself the shitty racist you are.
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Post by Thomas Uriel Bates on Jul 4, 2015 22:30:13 GMT -5
@thomasbateswcf
Another reason to hate Howard Black. Slavery and racism existed and thrived under the Union flag far longer than it ever did under the Confederate flag. Groups such as the Ku Klux Klan fly the Union flag, just as much if not more so than the Confederate flag, or the Nazi flags. In fact, if you look back on the history of it enough, the Klan was reformed after the movie "Birth of a Nation" which was about uniting the North and the South as much as it was about racism.
Howard sees "rednecks" with the Confederate flag shouting "nigger", well I see black gangbangers and thugs going around calling each other "nigger" all the time. I also see plenty of blacks and whites working together, with the Confederate flag somewhere. Just today I saw a picture of a truck with Confederate flags pulled over and helping a black family with their car troubles. Several of the individuals speaking out against the banning of the Flag have been black, such as former President of the Asheville Chapter of the NAACP H.K. Edgerton, a personal friend of mine.
Maybe if people like Howard Black would look past race, and look at what's going on in the world today, they wouldn't need to make a scapegoat out of a flag that is over 150 years old. Maybe if they were to listen to Dr. Martin Luther King and Robert E. Lee, then we wouldn't be such a divided country as we are today. Maybe if they put their own bigotry aside, then maybe just maybe we could all just get along.
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Post by Corey Black on Jul 4, 2015 22:43:07 GMT -5
The real tragedy here is how Doc Henry is still breathing.
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Post by Kaz on Jul 4, 2015 23:00:06 GMT -5
 From The Desk of Kaz Mazy Official United States Champion Address: "I, as your incumbent U.S. Champion, declare that all of you need to shut da FAWK up! Black, White, Asian, Jew, Cajun, Hispanic...whatever your race is, we all belong to the HUMAN RACE. If you simply quit thinking about it, racism will no longer exist. Communism, plain and simple. Someone was smokin' crack when they gave you fools a democracy. They should have known you couldn't handle that shit. Freedom of speech. What a fuckin' joke." |
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Post by K. L. Henson on Jul 5, 2015 0:17:13 GMT -5
...Doesn't it get old focusing on the wrong things all the time? You all are a part of a bigger problem. You all live by symbols. You are not humans, you are not living, you are sentience fading into a new form of animal living. Your arguments are somebody else's words, your pride is someone else's marketing scheme, an you dedicate yourselves to being loyal instead of being right.
Soon, very soon our global civilization will be wiped off the map and these stupid things we take to be important will be buried fifty feet below. And you may ask then why do I comment. Well, the thing is I wish to use the example of this buzz-topic to point out the shift in human dynamic, in understanding, in perception. For even beyond fact, in the real scheme of things in our society, the only thing that is real is the clause of mass acceptance.
The idea of the confederate flag is changing in meaning for two groups of people. Steadily certain people are taking more and more offence to the confederate flag as a outdated and vulgar representation of a specific point in history while others (in reaction to this claim) develop the definition that it represents pride in the South in a general overarching since. And years before this, it was just the marketing of the Dukes of Hazard, and before that it was something else and before that it was something else.
My point? Well besides the awesome display of cultural anthropology that you are all missing, the point is the flag means nothing...like all flags really, like all the symbols we live by. It is only the motion of all things that carry meaning, and the only meaning they carry is what happens from here on out. But definitions always change in items just like in language because it is nothingness, but the human mind refuses to accept nothingness so it creates something to replace that.
Your need to push to argue is simply the need to distract yourself from the fact that your lives have no meaning, that we live a significantly short time with VERY FEW of us making any sort of difference, so we helplessly fight over things that mean nothing. Nietzsche was a bitch but the smartest thing he ever said was "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." Though most people pawn it off as pretentious garbage, I think I gave a fair portion of the meaning. You are seeking into unlivingness, escape while you still can...
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Post by K. L. Henson on Jul 5, 2015 0:36:22 GMT -5
Also, can I be the first to point out the click bait headline? Moths to a flame. He-he-he, our world is gonna burn like Rome as Nero fiddled away.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2015 0:38:57 GMT -5
@theantidote
To me, flags in general promote negative vibes and racism. I don't believe flags are needed to remind anyone of any sense of pride, rights, or historical happenings.
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Post by Joey Flash on Jul 5, 2015 1:39:31 GMT -5
@mrflash
ima come strapped to any confederate rally and lay all u fuckas down
#justice4kunta
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Post by Thomas Uriel Bates on Jul 5, 2015 1:43:57 GMT -5
@thomasbateswcf
@mrflash, please do.
#ripflash, #shouldhaveknown, #godandguns
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Post by Crow McMorris on Jul 5, 2015 2:05:18 GMT -5
Someone needs to call Mississippi and tell them we got a problem.
Just a few notes about “The Southern Cross”.
The so-called confederate flag was NEVER the flag of the confederacy. It was rejected as such in 1861. Instead, the flag was adopted by the Army of Northern Virginia; an army lead by a certain, General Robert E. Lee.
Lee's a complex figure. He fought for his country during the Mexican-American war. Lee had a smart, tactical acumen when it came to overcoming unbelievable odds. But it was still his questionable decisions that lead to the fall of South after he had assumed full command of the Southern Army. Still, it was also Lee who asked for the fighting to end and that the union be reformed. Probably saving thousands of lives in the process. He once called slavery “A moral and political evil”. So, maybe not all that bad of a guy, right?
Wait up.
There's another side to the man, the side that refused to back the right for votes for freed slaves. The man that kept slaves himself and had them beaten, men and women who were promised their freedom upon the death of their former “master”. Lee believed that slavery existed because “God Willed it”. That's the man who the flag is the personification of. He was a smart soldier, but a bigot and a racist, as evident by a eugenics fueled discourse he wrote to his wife, also named Mary, on the subject of slavery back in 1856, “The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence”
So yeah. Robert E. Lee was a racist dick, who happened to know how to fight. The horrific shootings in Charlotte that sparked this debate were conducted by a nut job, so whatever flag said nut job flew in a photo doesn't actually matter...because he's a nut job. Still, the flag itself is a symbol of hate to some, and if those few who go out of their way to cause harm to innocent people, do so flying a certain flag? Then just how much is that flag worth?
A soldier never dies for a flag. He dies for the freedom of the country it represents. If the flag is dividing this nation, if it has become a symbol of hate? Then we have to discuss it's continued use in an official capacity. And it being flown in public as part of, “popular culture”. People first, flags second.
And that, is the only truth that really counts in 2015.
Maybe Kanye has the right idea, maybe he can reclaim the flag and steal it away from hate. Who knows? All I know is this. This is ONE NATION. Religious, sexual or racist persecution will not be tolerated by me. And thankfully, that goes for most of you to.
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Post by K. L. Henson on Jul 5, 2015 2:20:21 GMT -5
Brilliance Mr. Crow! Truly proof that information and examination prevails above all! Proper context and perspective delivered in one mighty swoop! All rhetoric dies when understanding, flow, and direction are introduced. You are in yourself not a slave to the dedicated desensitization of simple living and recognition. Though now I feel I must label you a threat then if you continue to prove to be this enlightened. Sorry, I mean no personal malice. It is just one must know where he stands and what niche runs the risk of being overrun and how one must protect it. More take it as a compliment from a man who does not compliment many  |
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Post by Kaz on Jul 5, 2015 2:26:50 GMT -5
This guy says we're all uneducated sheep, but when you possess the knowledge that nobody gives a fuck about (becuz its just common sense wrapped in a fancy package) he labels you threat...when he in himself isn't much of a threat to anyone or anything?
For that I might just drop you with two RKAZRO's on Sunday, pick ya azz up, and drop you with a third. It's not that personal, I just can't have you overestimating yourself like this.
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Post by K. L. Henson on Jul 5, 2015 2:42:42 GMT -5
I really must say that my words have been misconstrued! Ever since that damned Internet war with Alex Richards, my words have took on new meaning to you people. I am not claiming to be better (one: it is a false concept, better and worse are subjective ideas of personal reasoning. Two: I have simply never said the words, at least not in the means to demean people.)
Whenever I claim ignorance at the world, it is in the since that I feel people are poorly wired! It is not a sense of uneducated, but a sense of misdirected (which leads to slander such as Kaz's statement!) I simply believe the world doesn't know what to do with the information it has and creates millions of micro-snafu's that spawn off misunderstanding and ill-structured logic. Your compartmentalization is busted and no one has any idea how to fix it. And beyond that, there are people living off information that is simply not true but grounded into our mental faculties (such as religion and such but that is a discussion for a different time). I merely aim to direct it in the right path or what I think to be the right path (for you would ask me how would I know, but there is no 100% knowing until one knows 100%, but one has to do something and can't hesitate because of these facts or nothing would get done).
When I said I have to consider Crow a threat, it was not to insult you as if saying you couldn't lay a hand on me, you are very capable as a fighter, but in terms of what is important to me and what my purpose truly is, I feel Crow is the closest to threatening it. So, I urge you to think over my words and don't get so twisted on what my thoughts have been twisted into. Dear me, I now kinda wish I never conceded to silence with Alex, I let a new stream of thought escape and alter logic and create a bad impression :\
As far as our match goes though. I would really rather leave it to the actions in the ring. Words are fun and all but talking about kicking each other's ass is rather boring if there is not some logical construct. But if you feel like discussing other subjects, I am more than happy to continue talking to you, you fine fellow!
And as far as common sense wrapped in a fancy package. I think you will find that what I am getting at is perspective (as I have said) and not so much the knowledge of it.
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Post by Thomas Uriel Bates on Jul 5, 2015 3:04:06 GMT -5
Robert E. Lee never owned slaves. In actuality, it was the slaves belonging to George Washington and his family, of which Robert E. Lee married into. As dictated in the will left by George Washington, those slaves were freed during the war.
Sure, you can find racist comments from General Lee, just like you can find racist comments from Ulysses S. Grant (ordered the removal of all jews from the entire state of Tennessee), William T. Sherman (murdered black people for getting to close to him, or his men committing rape, torture, and murder against even the black population), or even Abraham Lincoln (didn't think blacks and whites could live together, actively sought to remove all black people from the American continent.) You can also find people like Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson who taught blacks to read and write in Sunday school (an illegal act at the time), Patrick Cleburne who attempted to authorize the official enlistment in the regular army of black troops, or General Bushrod Johnson who worked the Underground Railroad before the war, helping escaped slaves run to Canada (because the North had strict segregation laws).
Only the South must carry this burden of Slavery, due to a war fought not over Slavery, but money, greed, and hypocrisy. The North had slaves, but the South is the only one remembered having done so. Europe had slaves, but we don't talk about that, do we? Africa had slaves, do we discuss that? How about the many black slave owners in the Carolinas, Virginia, and Louisiana? Nevermind that nearly every country on Earth, every race on this planet, owned slaves or have been slaves. Only the South must carry this burden. Hypocrites.
What do you think is the true flag of slavery? What flag flew over the slave ships of the world, when all other countries outlawed it (including the Confederacy)? That's right folks, the Union flag. What flag flew over the Indians as they lost their land, forced to walk west of the Mississippi, or as entire Nations and people were wiped from the face of the earth? Those stars and stripes, not the stars and bars or that Southern Cross. What flag flew as innocent Japanese or Asian looking people were locked away in Camps? The Union flag yet again! But now, only the Flags of the Confederacy must carry the burden of sins not entirely of their own. Only the South is to be judged by their time, nevermind everyone else.
As for the flag just being a piece of cloth; please feel free to test that theory. Walk up to a bunch of soldiers, throw down their flag, and piss on it. See just how long they let you keep breathing.
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Post by Joey Flash on Jul 5, 2015 3:12:19 GMT -5
@thomasbateswcf Another reason to hate Howard Black. Slavery and racism existed and thrived under the Union flag far longer than it ever did under the Confederate flag. Groups such as the Ku Klux Klan fly the Union flag, just as much if not more so than the Confederate flag, or the Nazi flags. In fact, if you look back on the history of it enough, the Klan was reformed after the movie "Birth of a Nation" which was about uniting the North and the South as much as it was about racism.
Howard sees "rednecks" with the Confederate flag shouting "nigger", well I see black gangbangers and thugs going around calling each other "nigger" all the time. I also see plenty of blacks and whites working together, with the Confederate flag somewhere. Just today I saw a picture of a truck with Confederate flags pulled over and helping a black family with their car troubles. Several of the individuals speaking out against the banning of the Flag have been black, such as former President of the Asheville Chapter of the NAACP H.K. Edgerton, a personal friend of mine. Maybe if people like Howard Black would look past race, and look at what's going on in the world today, they wouldn't need to make a scapegoat out of a flag that is over 150 years old. Maybe if they were to listen to Dr. Martin Luther King and Robert E. Lee, then we wouldn't be such a divided country as we are today. Maybe if they put their own bigotry aside, then maybe just maybe we could all just get along. @mrflash tho tbh 'nigga' is easier to say than dequanishta or shakkaaquallie!!!!! |
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Post by K. L. Henson on Jul 5, 2015 3:33:10 GMT -5
As for the flag just being a piece of cloth; please feel free to test that theory. Walk up to a bunch of soldiers, throw down their flag, and piss on it. See just how long they let you keep breathing. Out of your whole argument, this is the only one that interested me, the rest misses the point of re-appropriation. See, the course of action and transaction you are referring to is a part of what I have referred to as a collective psychosis. Those soldiers live by symbols as well in this case. But, if I do such a thing, one: it is considered inciting conflict where I know full well what they would plan to do with me for my actions would be popularly accepted as purposely dickish. But say if I went up to them and said their flag is a false symbol and demanded to know how they answer for it, I would expect a civil debate (heated one, but no violence). If one truly believes what they do is right, they should be able to fully justify it. And I would take it to believe that if they violently attack me for that, that most would consider them in the wrong. (Get my point yet?) Also, the transaction you speak of gives no facts. Plays on emotion, plays on the threshold of "the reasonable man" by arguing with one's convictions which still is emptiness and their flag is still cloth because that is merely a perspective that has yet to be broken. So, personal meaning from someone else is not a reason to accept your argument. The flag did not make them believe in their cause. The flag is merely a symbol of that collective idea of what they want to personally stand for (again, perception). It is kind of like the idea that for there to be good people, they need a good book and a god to keep them in line when the real logic is the good book exists because there was someone who believed these to be good things. But I guess if one believes in god, that logic is not going to be relevant. But I still will argue there is no God in that flag to make it such. But on top of that, you are assuming all soldiers are the same and take the flag as the thing they fought for. Sure there might be a majority but is it a pure consistency, no. Thus there is nothing concrete here. You are just saying, accept or get your ass kicked when many have died believing opposing views of such things and then they are deemed heroes. So, in closing. Not sure how this meant anything |
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Post by Thomas Uriel Bates on Jul 5, 2015 3:49:54 GMT -5
Henson, flags are symbols of identification. A General surveying a battlefield needs to know where his troops are. Each regiment, and at times each company, has their own flag. This flag comes to symbolize that unit, and the men in that unit. Many times the flag would be made by loved ones from home, making the symbol not just for the unit, but for the people back home. They will fight for that flag, they will die for that flag. In those big battles where you hear of massive casualties, such as Shiloh, Gettysburg, Franklin, if you were to survey the bodies on that field, you would see the greatest mass of bodies surrounding the Colour Bearer, who carried the unit's flag into battle. It is a symbol of love, admiration, respect, and loyalty. It stands for your fellow soldier, the girl you left behind, it stands for your family, your homes, your people.
Today those flags mean so much more. It stands as a symbol of those who came before. Your family, your ancestors, your heritage. I fly the Confederate flag and I know who in my family fought under that flag. That the crimson of that flag is made by the blood of everyone who died defending it. My family fought for that flag, they had pride in that flag, I have pride in that flag. Like my ancestors, I would fight for that flag, and I would die for that flag.
If you can't understand that, if you can't understand a person's devotion to their family, to their home, to their heritage, then I feel sorry for you.
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Post by K. L. Henson on Jul 5, 2015 4:05:40 GMT -5
Henson, flags are symbols of identification. A General surveying a battlefield needs to know where his troops are. Each regiment, and at times each company, has their own flag. This flag comes to symbolize that unit, and the men in that unit. Many times the flag would be made by loved ones from home, making the symbol not just for the unit, but for the people back home. They will fight for that flag, they will die for that flag. In those big battles where you hear of massive casualties, such as Shiloh, Gettysburg, Franklin, if you were to survey the bodies on that field, you would see the greatest mass of bodies surrounding the Colour Bearer, who carried the unit's flag into battle. It is a symbol of love, admiration, respect, and loyalty. It stands for your fellow soldier, the girl you left behind, it stands for your family, your homes, your people. Today those flags mean so much more. It stands as a symbol of those who came before. Your family, your ancestors, your heritage. I fly the Confederate flag and I know who in my family fought under that flag. That the crimson of that flag is made by the blood of everyone who died defending it. My family fought for that flag, they had pride in that flag, I have pride in that flag. Like my ancestors, I would fight for that flag, and I would die for that flag. If you can't understand that, if you can't understand a person's devotion to their family, to their home, to their heritage, then I feel sorry for you. The only thing that really got through to me was the identification of the battle field. But allow me to retort. That is tactical use and thus means really the appropriate use of a flag is for war. I'll accept that, but justifying the flag means more than that, it does not. As for the rest of your argument, I revert back to, one does not (or should not) need a flag to remember these things are important to them. If one holds these principles as much as you imply they do, then they won't need a flag to remind them. They should be able to hold it on their own. Flags do not hold up convictions, convictions hold up flags. But maybe this is the degradation of society if this can't be the truth. Much in the same way that Socrates said the written language will destroy the human need to exercise memory (which is generally truly, the farther we go), so if what you say is true then the flag has had the same effect on holding conviction (but again this is not the truth for the human is the vessel of the thought. Because (let me put it this way I guess) the power in a flag is their projection onto an easy symbol, because symbols are attractive because they are indeed easy and the mind gravitates towards simplicity because it is so easy to comprehend. The flag is just one of many symbols and is one of the symbols we as persons put meaning to (but now I am repeating myself). The flag itself means nothing (again, accept for war purpose in tactical operations). So really what you are priding your flag on is what is inside people. So be prideful of the people. You don't need a flag to do that unless you falter on these convictions at times...Do you? Everything else is chemicals working with your compartmentalization of what means what. Concepts exist only in thought, there is no physical "concept". Though you MUST forgive me for I was born without these chemicals. My brain is a little drier and more stark and barren of such thought than yours is. |
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Post by Crow McMorris on Jul 5, 2015 4:10:48 GMT -5
Robert E. Lee never owned slaves. In actuality, it was the slaves belonging to George Washington and his family, of which Robert E. Lee married into. As dictated in the will left by George Washington, those slaves were freed during the war. Sure, you can find racist comments from General Lee, just like you can find racist comments from Ulysses S. Grant (ordered the removal of all jews from the entire state of Tennessee), William T. Sherman (murdered black people for getting to close to him, or his men committing rape, torture, and murder against even the black population), or even Abraham Lincoln (didn't think blacks and whites could live together, actively sought to remove all black people from the American continent.) You can also find people like Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson who taught blacks to read and write in Sunday school (an illegal act at the time), Patrick Cleburne who attempted to authorize the official enlistment in the regular army of black troops, or General Bushrod Johnson who worked the Underground Railroad before the war, helping escaped slaves run to Canada (because the North had strict segregation laws). Only the South must carry this burden of Slavery, due to a war fought not over Slavery, but money, greed, and hypocrisy. The North had slaves, but the South is the only one remembered having done so. Europe had slaves, but we don't talk about that, do we? Africa had slaves, do we discuss that? How about the many black slave owners in the Carolinas, Virginia, and Louisiana? Nevermind that nearly every country on Earth, every race on this planet, owned slaves or have been slaves. Only the South must carry this burden. Hypocrites. What do you think is the true flag of slavery? What flag flew over the slave ships of the world, when all other countries outlawed it (including the Confederacy)? That's right folks, the Union flag. What flag flew over the Indians as they lost their land, forced to walk west of the Mississippi, or as entire Nations and people were wiped from the face of the earth? Those stars and stripes, not the stars and bars or that Southern Cross. What flag flew as innocent Japanese or Asian looking people were locked away in Camps? The Union flag yet again! But now, only the Flags of the Confederacy must carry the burden of sins not entirely of their own. Only the South is to be judged by their time, nevermind everyone else. As for the flag just being a piece of cloth; please feel free to test that theory. Walk up to a bunch of soldiers, throw down their flag, and piss on it. See just how long they let you keep breathing. Tom, just a few points that need clearing up. Lee took over George Washington Parke Custis's, "Arlington House" plantation. Parke Curtis, the adopted son of George Washington, not the President himself, built the plantation. When Park Curtis died, Lee was made the executor of the estate that would later become Arlington Cemetery. What I'm basically saying is this: Lee ran the estate, he kept the slaves on the estate. President George Washington was dead by the time these events occurred. His adopted son wanted those slaves eventually feed. Lee could have let the slaves go. Sold off the land. He could have also ran Arlington with free men and women, instead he choose to keep the slaves. That was HIS CHOICE. Look up the infamous Norris case, to see how Lee dealt with "insubordination". Trust me, Robert E. Lee was not a pleasant man. So Bates, what would you consider to be the sum total of mankind's achievement? Forming this nation? Are ability as a species to cure diseases? To educate? To strive to be better than what we where, or indeed, are? Some would say it's a certain flag, flying on a certain moon, "For all Mankind". Old glory has a troubled history to be sure. But it is tempered by great deeds that have happened under it's watch. There are always two sides to history, as there are two sides to this debate, but one thing is clear. The stars and stripes is the constant, the southern cross is the footnote. No one would ever endorse stamping on someone's flag. If however, that flag had say...a swastika on it? Then there's a free pass right there. Same with the IS flag. The confederate flag doesn't fit into that same horrific mold. But, if it incites violence? Then we have to at least discuss it's history, and determine where we go from here. You're a proud man from a proud state with a proud heritage. But as you mentioned, we cannot afford to look at ourselves through rose tinted glasses. There are some home truths we ALL have to face as human beings, about tribalism, about belonging. I once said that I would never fight under someone else's flag. meant it then, mean it now. I am the one who watches the watchmen, WCF, Pantheon...it makes no difference to me. We all have to be cautious. |
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