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Post by Odin Balfore on Apr 20, 2016 23:50:26 GMT -5
In the past week it has come to my attention that my creative work as Zombie McMorris has created controversy and upset a number of people. I have been made aware of some PM’s that were sent to CD but am unaware of who sent them. I understand that the actions of my competitive account do not look favorably on my Admin account but I want to say publicly that my ZMAC account does not reflect my views or opinions of my Admin account or personal feelings away from creative competition. With that said, with all the complaints and hurt feelings I talked it over with the other admins and they have ALLOWED me to make this thread.
In this thread YOU ( The WCF Loyal ) may openly submit your thoughts an opinions on me ( be it admin, ZMAC or whatever). There is even permission for harsh words towards me ( AND TOWARDS ME ONLY ) If anyone feels such a need.
So if anyone here feels as though they need to express themselves on this matter, please feel free. However, know that any bashing of other members aside from myself will be taken notice of.
With that out of the way, I want to openly discuss my use of 4th wall material in ZMACs RPs.
I play ZMAC as a crude, bizarre and “in your face” type character that does not issue warning or apology. When I am on the ZMAC handle, I AM ZMAC. I am that character. That’s what he is, a character. I in NO WAY share his majority opinions on anything. In regards to the fourth wall, I use it as a way to nod or jab the fed. I do so because in some aspects, I enjoy funny nods. In other aspects, I know it’ll get me cheap heat. Zombie McMorris IS A HEEL. People have taken his comments as my personal sentiments and that is not accurate.
As it stands right now, I feel as though I owe only 1 person a true apology but in that, this person has been in the fed a long time and know that the comments made by a character are a character. I will leave the name this person to the wind and if they contact me to talk it out, we will do so privately unless they wish to air this publicly but know that I humbly apologize for it.
I’ve been told to tune down the 4th wall comments because it has upset people and that leads us to this thread right here. My own opinion is that the 4th wall is a trait for the ZMAC character. Anyone whose been here long enough knows that I in no way need that trait to be effective as a competitive writer. In my time with ZMAC it has been suggested that I ease off suggestive language and I have. Now I am being told to ease off on character traits because that too offends some people.
I do not feel attacked or unfairly judged but that is where my competitive character stands; I have shrunk him down so that others can enjoy this game. This is a hobby, an escape and currently there are a few that feel as though I have robbed them of that. I have been in WCF for 5 years and it is not my intention to take this place away from anyone in a personal sense where they feel I am attacking them. I also understand that my lack of OOC activity adds fire because a lot of what people see of me is my competitive character; so this is not a new feeling for me in WCF.
If anyone is offended or hurt due to heel character actions, please keep in mind that they are of a fictional nature and do not represent my true feelings on a particular person or matter.
With that said WCF, please speak your mind.
- The All Father
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Post by 6ix God on Apr 21, 2016 0:02:17 GMT -5
I have always felt that Zmac is the Deadpool of WCF: the breaking of the fourth wall serves as a character trait, originally unique to the character, which was never used in a malicious or insulting manner OOC. I have fond memories of ZMac shooting on Howard Black by referencing Roy Speede (we shared AJ Styles as a base pic, albeit Styles at different looks in his career) and never took these as a jab at me as a handler. Granted, I speak only for myself.
As someone who ran into a perceived controversy early in his time in WCF, I implore anyone who feels harmed or slighted to message Odin and talk to him; he's legitimately one of the best guys in the federation IC and OOC.
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Post by Seth on Apr 21, 2016 0:17:53 GMT -5
4th Wall referencing that you're in a roleplaying contest: lazy but OK 4th Wall attacking an OOC aspect of the wrestler you're against: lazy and not OK
It boils down to that. Using your character as an excuse to use OOC stuff and make your promos meta to attack your opponent isn't super fair.
The best thing you could do is have ZMAC get knocked in the head and forget all of the OOC references he's ever made, and focus on the characters you're up against.
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Post by Seth on Apr 21, 2016 0:18:45 GMT -5
(Example: Deadpool may trash Spiderman, but he probably doesn't trash the dude who writes Spiderman. Or, uh, maybe he probably does, I don't read comics enough, but if he did, that would be bad.. for our example..)
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Post by SickWaves Blackamura on Apr 21, 2016 0:19:34 GMT -5
I'm guilty of fourth wall break and I'll likely do it in the future. I enjoy the wink wink 4th wall breaks. Hell, people like Howie and Flash are 2 people I consider good friends of mine here in this fed and they've got in those jabs rp'ing against me on more than one occasion and I think it's hilarious.
I know ZMAC isn't being malicious or shitty OOC with wall breaks. Maybe it could be toned back a bit, but I don't see it as spirit crushing personally.
In all honesty, ZMAC isn't even the major problem in the realm of wall breaks or the no sell/burying conversations, it's the Internet and IC news boards most of the time. Those WCF fan accounts that filled a page of threads with nice comments? Yeah, those were me and a few other people trying to turn the internet board culture into something positive haha. I think we've all been guilty of unfair IC shit and believe it's everyone's responsibility to look for ways to improve on that side of this hobby.
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Post by Joey Flash on Apr 21, 2016 5:00:32 GMT -5
For judging purposes its almost certainly a killer for the character. You would have likely won the Hardcore title without doing the fourth wall stuff...
...that being said it's fuckin hilarious and great part of the gimmick. Keep bangin bro!!!!
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Post by Gemini Battle on Apr 21, 2016 5:34:01 GMT -5
That's noble of you to apologize. I think as howie said, the fourth wall breaking is a funny nod to some things. But in needs to be done tastefully. And I guess maybe your targets need to be more carefully selected.
Lets say someone comes back who left on not so good terms and felt disrespected, whether it was warranted or not this is the way that they feel. If they return with a new character, trying to start over and get over the past but you as a handler repeatedly bring up this past that they want to forget then it's a little hash.
But if you say something to Grayson like 'what the fuck ever, get back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich' (referencing the fact that I'm a chef OOC that I have openly discussed) I would laugh.
Then there's the argument of when is it ok and when is it not and that gets a little sketchy and subjective. Because, using my first example, in the only rp I had to do against twilight in his return I said something like 'he this and he that and...wait a minute...twilights not a dude? She sure is an ugly woman then'
Or something to that effect which I thought would be ok at the time even though I have had little to no outside interaction with the handler. In retrospect if that crossed the line I apologize.
As for separating the person from the character its a testament to how well you write the character...
However by breaking the fourth wall constantly it really does blur the lines between reality and imagination. It's not fair to bring up OOC things in character and say that it's not an attack OOC.
'I know i made fun of flash and Howard's almost sexual online relationship in a RP but I don't think you guys are doing each other in the butt in real life.
When their characters don't talk to each other is a bit lame.
But for the record I think the only reason flash and howie dont do each other in the butt is the atlantic ocean. And that's OOC and I love you guys for it.
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Post by Stuart Slane on Apr 21, 2016 6:26:36 GMT -5
Some observations:
Odin's one of the fed's biggest boosters and a key guy in making run as smoothly as it does. He's willing to help out people with storylines, with their role plays, and with putting the show together through writing matches. A legit Hall of Famer for his accomplishments in the game and as a member of the community.
The argument that McMorris uses the rubble from breaking the fourth wall to bash his opponent's head in ok because that's his character? Acceptable to me. But just remember, if you think that's acceptable, pretty much every other gripe everyone has with how people run their "personas" (the no-selling, the faces acting heelish, the heels acting face-y, whatever) can be explained away with the very same logic.
Lastly, my only issue I have had with Odin and breaking the fourth wall is the fact he has said that he has tried to get people to rage-quit WCF. Doing that and then using your role plays to attack people OOC, it's not hard to make the connection that the content of his promos have a malign purpose. No one should be trying to get another person to leave WCF if they're not breaking the rules. An admin certainly shouldn't be doing this.
Maybe I'm talking out of my ass here, since despite my relatively long (though sporadic) tenure here I don't have a ton of knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 7:57:11 GMT -5
My month of ZMAC was a tough time for me having just joined the fed. I liked it, I appreciate it more now, and I included ZOdin in my "thank you" PM I sent to the guys I thought helped me out a lot. Odin gave me the wakeup when I asked for feedback on the RP I wrote in the style of the last fed I was in, and I used this to figure out what to do here. Because of that, I had a positive opinion of him, but when he started calling me out for when the retarded kid attacked me, I didn't get it. I didn't get why he was doing it and then why he was using it like it would count towards him winning the IT match, and I started to get quite butthurt over it. I thought he was being a dick, but after a bit I figured it out that he was trying to get in my head and throw me off and I started doing the same thing. For example, I pointed out that when he made the IT title, the only person who wanted it was "him" or Odin. I would have rather not involved OOC, but looking back I really don't have anything against him for it and I felt better after he made the match stats post. I think I rambled a bit because I feel like shit today, but the point is I got over it and I know he isn't like that OOC, and it's not unprecedented to have a 4th wall breaking character, but in this environment it can be walking a thin line. I think he can do what he wants with his character until there's a rule that's getting broken.
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Post by Jeff Purse on Apr 21, 2016 8:03:29 GMT -5
This is the exact reason I don't like the Zmac character. I appreciate you toning down the vulgarity, I know you did that as a nod to me (or at least I think), and really I appreciate that, and I love the Odin and Buddy Roman characters. But I hate the breaking the 4th wall as a way to attack your opponent. And while some fourth wall breaking is funny and acceptable, if you break the fourth wall to attack the handler, thats where it becomes a problem. For example: CD saying that Jeff needs to go 'Bye Bye Bye' or whatever, is funny. He is making fun of the picture base. If he said "Jeff Purse is a terrible writer" yeah, I take offense and that pisses me off. You know?
Also what I don't like is that Zmac can break the fourth wall all he wants and say whatever he wants and its a 'character trait' and its funny and, Oh thats just Zmac. But someone does it back and all of a sudden there is a giant problem? People get unfairly called out in defense of one person breaking the fourth wall but not the others? I think that is major bullshit.
Everyone pretty much already said it, but I have a huge problem with this and just wanted to put in two cents.
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Post by Earth-616 Holmes on Apr 21, 2016 8:29:58 GMT -5
I never had a problem with Z-MAC. He's Deadpool. He always made me laugh, and to be honest, your Z-Mac shoots are the key reason that motivated me to go all out. I would say maybe like Seth said.
Tone it done a little to where breaking the fourth wall could be more of an In-Character kayfabe CM Punk shoot.
Other than that yeah, do you.
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Post by Lilith on Apr 21, 2016 9:01:29 GMT -5
I feel like there should be a rule (unwritten or not) that basically says... "going ooc/breaking the 4th wall in IC stuff is not okay and is stupid". Because it isn't okay and it is stupid. That's like me facing Joey Flash and shooting on Chris the entire time lol I'm sure you can run and handle the ZMAC character without the ooc stuff. Even calling Kat, KRod was annoying to me. I mean I don't mind it on the ooc boards or in the chatroom etc but in IC stuff it's annoying. Just like saying how Twilight and Kat and Tiffany are dudes because they're handled by guys. That's annoying and stupid too.
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Post by 6ix God on Apr 21, 2016 9:04:42 GMT -5
Also what I don't like is that Zmac can break the fourth wall all he wants and say whatever he wants and its a 'character trait' and its funny and, Oh thats just Zmac. But someone does it back and all of a sudden there is a giant problem? People get unfairly called out in defense of one person breaking the fourth wall but not the others? I think that is major bullshit. I don't think I totally agree with this. ZMac is a literal zombie who ingests cocaine and Falcon Punches people; the character is like if you threw a bunch of pop culture floatsam into a blender. The fourth wall breaking is a natural next step for a character this chaotic and disjointed; he's pure chaotic neutral cranked up to eleven. Why would "Joe the Wrestler" have fourth wall breaking powers? Don't get me wrong, I make little 4th wall nods on occasion as Jared; everyone does. I think I do it tastefully, and I think Odin tends to keep his fourth wall breaking harmless. You, Purse, have been incredibly vocal in breaking the fourth wall in terms of Sarah Twilight and deliberately calling back to OOC drama IC. Glass houses and whatnot.
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Post by 6ix God on Apr 21, 2016 9:10:31 GMT -5
'I know i made fun of flash and Howard's almost sexual online relationship in a RP but I don't think you guys are doing each other in the butt in real life. When their characters don't talk to each other is a bit lame. But for the record I think the only reason flash and howie dont do each other in the butt is the atlantic ocean. And that's OOC and I love you guys for it. Celeste has sent me messages on Facebook angrily accusing me of turning Flash gay and saying that I'm only allowed an hour of his time a week. She's just jealous of the love we share. Consider the girl on the left is my ex, this picture is even more appropriate now.
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Post by Earth-616 Holmes on Apr 21, 2016 9:19:42 GMT -5
'I know i made fun of flash and Howard's almost sexual online relationship in a RP but I don't think you guys are doing each other in the butt in real life. When their characters don't talk to each other is a bit lame. But for the record I think the only reason flash and howie dont do each other in the butt is the atlantic ocean. And that's OOC and I love you guys for it. Celeste has sent me messages on Facebook angrily accusing me of turning Flash gay and saying that I'm only allowed an hour of his time a week. She's just jealous of the love we share. Consider the girl on the left is my ex, this picture is even more appropriate now. Jared. I'm having my third baby. It's yours.
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Post by Jeff Purse on Apr 21, 2016 9:23:33 GMT -5
Also what I don't like is that Zmac can break the fourth wall all he wants and say whatever he wants and its a 'character trait' and its funny and, Oh thats just Zmac. But someone does it back and all of a sudden there is a giant problem? People get unfairly called out in defense of one person breaking the fourth wall but not the others? I think that is major bullshit. I don't think I totally agree with this. ZMac is a literal zombie who ingests cocaine and Falcon Punches people; the character is like if you threw a bunch of pop culture floatsam into a blender. The fourth wall breaking is a natural next step for a character this chaotic and disjointed; he's pure chaotic neutral cranked up to eleven. Why would "Joe the Wrestler" have fourth wall breaking powers? Don't get me wrong, I make little 4th wall nods on occasion as Jared; everyone does. I think I do it tastefully, and I think Odin tends to keep his fourth wall breaking harmless. You, Purse, have been incredibly vocal in breaking the fourth wall in terms of Sarah Twilight and deliberately calling back to OOC drama IC. Glass houses and whatnot. First of all, no I haven't. I have broke the fourth wall, don't get me wrong, but the #TwilightIsADude or whatever started way back before I even knew Twilight was actually a dude. Back when Twilight and I were feuding I would end all of my tweets and whatnot with #TwilightIsADude or #TwilightIsAMan or whatever, its not a fourth wall break, its a continuation of Sarah Twilight and Jeff Purse's feud. It just so happens that Twilight actually turned out to be a dude. As for the Zmac breaking character, not only can it be percieved as shots toward the handler, as it has been, but also it doesn't make sense. Calling Katherine Phoenix K-Rod in a promo doesn't make sense. Saying Scathe and Jay Omega are the same person doesn't make sense. Sure, to us who play the characters and write the shit it makes sense, but in the context of the fictional universe we create, it makes absolutely no sense. The one time I did break the fourth wall what could be malicious (which it wasn't, it was a nod to you and Flash) is something you could call me on. It is the same example though. You could have taken that as me attacking you guys, I never meant it that way, but I could understand how it could come across that way. I would have apologized. I don't think that ZMac/Odin means any real harm when he does this, but its still a problem when you start talking shit on the handler and not the character. Nahhh Mean?
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Post by Crow McMorris on Apr 21, 2016 9:24:44 GMT -5
'I know i made fun of flash and Howard's almost sexual online relationship in a RP but I don't think you guys are doing each other in the butt in real life. When their characters don't talk to each other is a bit lame. But for the record I think the only reason flash and howie dont do each other in the butt is the atlantic ocean. And that's OOC and I love you guys for it. Celeste has sent me messages on Facebook angrily accusing me of turning Flash gay and saying that I'm only allowed an hour of his time a week. She's just jealous of the love we share. Consider the girl on the left is my ex, this picture is even more appropriate now. Can I laugh at this? It all feels really awkward.
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Post by Jeff Purse on Apr 21, 2016 9:26:39 GMT -5
Also what I don't like is that Zmac can break the fourth wall all he wants and say whatever he wants and its a 'character trait' and its funny and, Oh thats just Zmac. But someone does it back and all of a sudden there is a giant problem? People get unfairly called out in defense of one person breaking the fourth wall but not the others? I think that is major bullshit. I don't think I totally agree with this. ZMac is a literal zombie who ingests cocaine and Falcon Punches people; the character is like if you threw a bunch of pop culture floatsam into a blender. The fourth wall breaking is a natural next step for a character this chaotic and disjointed; he's pure chaotic neutral cranked up to eleven. Why would "Joe the Wrestler" have fourth wall breaking powers? Don't get me wrong, I make little 4th wall nods on occasion as Jared; everyone does. I think I do it tastefully, and I think Odin tends to keep his fourth wall breaking harmless. You, Purse, have been incredibly vocal in breaking the fourth wall in terms of Sarah Twilight and deliberately calling back to OOC drama IC. Glass houses and whatnot. Also, it can't just be ok for one and then not for others, ya know?
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Post by 6ix God on Apr 21, 2016 9:28:41 GMT -5
Celeste has sent me messages on Facebook angrily accusing me of turning Flash gay and saying that I'm only allowed an hour of his time a week. She's just jealous of the love we share. Consider the girl on the left is my ex, this picture is even more appropriate now. Can I laugh at this? It all feels really awkward. There is nothing funny about true love.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 9:41:41 GMT -5
Let me add a couple things real quick. I got sideways looks because of the way people thought I was insulting people OOC when I wasn't, so when you've got numbers of people breaking 4th wall it becomes sort of a witch hunt and people may think someone is doing it when they aren't. I remember now I pissed off Spencer/Aquarius because I called Henson a fat neckbeard aspie. I said that IC because Henson the character is a brony, so of course Dag would take the low hanging fruit and go there with it. Well, Spence let me know that Henson's handler wasn't exactly not that himself and he thought I was being a dick OOC. I had no idea, so not much I could do there. To continue this with what Purse said, that's the only time I'd been called out for breaking the 4th wall, which I wasn't doing anyway. When I actually did break the 4th wall with ZOdin, he never complained or anything, nor did anyone else say anything.
I have had other people break the 4th wall a little against me on the Twitter boards, usually to say I don't know anything about their characters and that's why I suck at shooting. Does that piss me off? A little. I know Andre somehow seems to know every piece of history in the fed, but frankly I barely have time to write my RPs let alone read the whole WCF results archiv, and I wouldn't have the attention span for that either. Also, just bringing up past losses or dumb things their characters did in the past doesn't seem like original or skilled shooting to me. The thing about what's said on the IT boards is that it can be just literally ignored if you feel like it, like when Rabbid found the pictures of my first picbase in drag and posted them everywhere. It was funny and not any big deal, but it was better for me to just ignore it, especially since it didn't matter. Maybe the best bet is to stick to occasionally breaking 4th wall on the IT boards, without being a dick in the process, and mostly avoid it in RPs where it is judged.
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