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Post by Steve Orbit on Apr 21, 2016 12:12:42 GMT -5
Here is my opinion on the subject.
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Post by Jayson Price on Apr 21, 2016 12:13:03 GMT -5
Maybe we just keep the IC and OOC seperated and on their respective boards?
I mean I "broke the 4th wall" in promos, but that was more in regards to talking to the person reading the RP and pointing out shit I was saying about the opponent. Going into an RP and calling out the handler doesn't make sense IC because your character is in a universe where the handlers don't exist. IC Jayson Price doesn't know that OOC Torture is an announcer from Califoria or that OOC Seth once texted me that he was wearing panties, so referencing that stuff makes no sense.
I dunno, I just think that if everyone remembers that IC and OOC are two things that need to be kept seperate, despite how you may feel about another handler, this issue will die.
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Post by SickWaves Blackamura on Apr 21, 2016 12:42:25 GMT -5
I feel like there should be a rule (unwritten or not) that basically says... "going ooc/breaking the 4th wall in IC stuff is not okay and is stupid". Because it isn't okay and it is stupid. That's like me facing Joey Flash and shooting on Chris the entire time lol I'm sure you can run and handle the ZMAC character without the ooc stuff. Even calling Kat, KRod was annoying to me. I mean I don't mind it on the ooc boards or in the chatroom etc but in IC stuff it's annoying. Just like saying how Twilight and Kat and Tiffany are dudes because they're handled by guys. That's annoying and stupid too. I will totally call you "C-Rod" as I know you'd be a little disappointed if I didn't.
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Post by Lilith on Apr 21, 2016 12:45:38 GMT -5
I feel like there should be a rule (unwritten or not) that basically says... "going ooc/breaking the 4th wall in IC stuff is not okay and is stupid". Because it isn't okay and it is stupid. That's like me facing Joey Flash and shooting on Chris the entire time lol I'm sure you can run and handle the ZMAC character without the ooc stuff. Even calling Kat, KRod was annoying to me. I mean I don't mind it on the ooc boards or in the chatroom etc but in IC stuff it's annoying. Just like saying how Twilight and Kat and Tiffany are dudes because they're handled by guys. That's annoying and stupid too. I will totally call you "C-Rod" as I know you'd be a little disappointed if I didn't. lol no thats even worse At least K-Rod sounds kinda gangsta... C-Rod sounds like... See Rod! Ewwwwwww!!!
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Post by Teo Blaze on Apr 21, 2016 12:57:44 GMT -5
Ok. There's pretty much no real answer here. I've never been aware of or affected by it when I faced Z-Mac, but...
Here's the problem in my opinion. I mean this in an honest and true sense. The Internet belt is in my opinion the "No Rules" Title. You can put in anything and everything you want. Some of you have seen I've been practicing with photoshop. If I were in an Internet title match, you better believe I'm going to photoshop Raven onto a little girl's body. I am relying that I can do that better than my opponent, and it might not be considered fair because I have that skill set my opponent might not.
So, the question. Does breaking the 4th Wall in an Internet title match necessarily count as a valid tactic? I would argue Yes, but only under those Internet boards. If you want to come at Z-Mac for that belt, be prepared for him to not play fair.
The reason I don't have a problem with it is that by and large Z-Mac does not just randomly troll people with OOC attacks. Almost every time he has broken character, so to speak, it has been specifically to keep that Internet or hardcore belt.
What makes those belts unique though is that the opponent has the chance to respond- once zombie makes it clear that he is breaking the wall, it is thus clear to the opponent that they are free to do the same. I would NOT be okay with doing it in an RP, in the same way response shoots are frowned upon, because there's no way for the opponent to properly address it.
Now- as to the Deadpool metaphor. Despite the cult status the character has attained, the way that the other members OF THE COMIC treat him is as a joke. An annoyance. When Deadpool breaks the 4th wall, the other characters ask what he's talking about.
But that's the other thing about Z-Mac, with a few notable exceptions, the 4th wall is never the entire basis for an attack. If all Deadpool did was break the 4th wall, he would be annoying. But he knows when to take it serious and to sell, to abuse a term, the situation. Z-Mac has his serious moments- and that's what makes his goofiness endearing. Even in the Internet threads, he'll get mad, he'll get offended, he'll get indignant.
Bottom line- if it's an Internet title match, you're on your own and anything goes. If you're not, then it's just an attack on someone for no reason. Lastly, I'm not a judge, but I personally wouldn't count 4th wall towards who wins, unless it provoked a significant reaction. That's on Seth/Price though- so I would defer to them in how it should be counted.
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Post by Lilith on Apr 21, 2016 13:06:42 GMT -5
Ok. There's pretty much no real answer here. I've never been aware of or affected by it when I faced Z-Mac, but... Here's the problem in my opinion. I mean this in an honest and true sense. The Internet belt is in my opinion the "No Rules" Title. You can put in anything and everything you want. Some of you have seen I've been practicing with photoshop. If I were in an Internet title match, you better believe I'm going to photoshop Raven onto a little girl's body. I am relying that I can do that better than my opponent, and it might not be considered fair because I have that skill set my opponent might not. So, the question. Does breaking the 4th Wall in an Internet title match necessarily count as a valid tactic? I would argue Yes, but only under those Internet boards. If you want to come at Z-Mac for that belt, be prepared for him to not play fair. The reason I don't have a problem with it is that by and large Z-Mac does not just randomly troll people with OOC attacks. Almost every time he has broken character, so to speak, it has been specifically to keep that Internet or hardcore belt. What makes those belts unique though is that the opponent has the chance to respond- once zombie makes it clear that he is breaking the wall, it is thus clear to the opponent that they are free to do the same. I would NOT be okay with doing it in an RP, in the same way response shoots are frowned upon, because there's no way for the opponent to properly address it. Now- as to the Deadpool metaphor. Despite the cult status the character has attained, the way that the other members OF THE COMIC treat him is as a joke. An annoyance. When Deadpool breaks the 4th wall, the other characters ask what he's talking about. But that's the other thing about Z-Mac, with a few notable exceptions, the 4th wall is never the entire basis for an attack. If all Deadpool did was break the 4th wall, he would be annoying. But he knows when to take it serious and to sell, to abuse a term, the situation. Z-Mac has his serious moments- and that's what makes his goofiness endearing. Even in the Internet threads, he'll get mad, he'll get offended, he'll get indignant. Bottom line- if it's an Internet title match, you're on your own and anything goes. If you're not, then it's just an attack on someone for no reason. Lastly, I'm not a judge, but I personally wouldn't count 4th wall towards who wins, unless it provoked a significant reaction. That's on Seth/Price though- so I would defer to them in how it should be counted. Teo, I love you... but what you wrote here was soooooo wrong. The Internet Title DOES and SHOULD have rules. Its called common decency. Prior to Kats death (lol) I probably used that board more than anyone, including ZMAC... and I have NEVER gone OOC on there. The only time I came kinda close was when Twilight was trying to get me to stumble after liking a post of his on there. Photoshopping a picture of someone onto something else is fine because that stuff would happen in real life wrestling (most likely), but if I went on there and was fighting Oblivion for example and instead of doing stuff against Oblivion I was doing it against Derek (his real name) that'd be wrong. It's not only a lame thing to do, but it also shows your inability to write if you need to lower yourself to such cheap "tactics". Also stop the Deadpool references because as far as I am aware, not even Deadpooi says stuff about Spidermans writer. "everything goes" on the internet boards/internet match is not the case, nor has it ever been and if that is going to become the thing nowadays... people really need to learn how to handle their characters and perform on a level where they do not need to do something so stupid.
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Post by SickWaves Blackamura on Apr 21, 2016 13:07:21 GMT -5
To be quite honest, I know that I get OOC salty from time to time as I'm a bit of a sensitive cunt and end up being a bit mean whether it be out of sympathy or whatever else, however at the end of the day, I am always willing to talk through problems and admit if I was out of line or being too sensitive. I know that Jay is one of the people who I've been unfair to in passing judgement on for things that I maybe wasn't seeing the big picture with and for that, I again apologize for. I've gotten into squabbles or had a bit of salt and butthurt with Rod/Kat, Dag, possibly a few DRG guys who I thought legit disliked me for leaving the stable.
Truth is, many of us have our sensitivities and I'm starting to learn that. I see these things like Gonzo having to leave because of a good friend being in bad health or the recent Purgatory situation and it's these things that really make me think. At the end of the day, we all have a lot of other bullshit to deal with and it's unfair to make WCF into more bullshit for people. I value both the WCF and the people in it even though most of us have never met. Since this thread already seems a bit about hurt feelings and being more considerate of others, then I guess this is sort of my formal apology to Jay Omega and everyone else who I've been shitty towards.
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Post by Lilith on Apr 21, 2016 13:11:20 GMT -5
To be quite honest, I know that I get OOC salty from time to time as I'm a bit of a sensitive cunt and end up being a bit mean whether it be out of sympathy or whatever else, however at the end of the day, I am always willing to talk through problems and admit if I was out of line or being too sensitive. I know that Jay is one of the people who I've been unfair to in passing judgement on for things that I maybe wasn't seeing the big picture with and for that, I again apologize for. I've gotten into squabbles or had a bit of salt and butthurt with Rod/Kat, Dag, possibly a few DRG guys who I thought legit disliked me for leaving the stable. Truth is, many of us have our sensitivities and I'm starting to learn that. I see these things like Gonzo having to leave because of a good friend being in bad health or the recent Purgatory situation and it's these things that really make me think. At the end of the day, we all have a lot of other bullshit to deal with and it's unfair to make WCF into more bullshit for people. I value both the WCF and the people in it even though most of us have never met. Since this thread already seems a bit about hurt feelings and being more considerate of others, then I guess this is sort of my formal apology to Jay Omega and everyone else who I've been shitty towards. We may have had our butthurt or salty times... but you know I love you in the most creepy of ways... lol
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Post by Teo Blaze on Apr 21, 2016 13:19:17 GMT -5
Ok. There's pretty much no real answer here. I've never been aware of or affected by it when I faced Z-Mac, but... yada yada yada Teo, I love you... but what you wrote here was soooooo wrong. The Internet Title DOES and SHOULD have rules. Its called common decency. Prior to Kats death (lol) I probably used that board more than anyone, including ZMAC... and I have NEVER gone OOC on there. The only time I came kinda close was when Twilight was trying to get me to stumble after liking a post of his on there. Photoshopping a picture of someone onto something else is fine because that stuff would happen in real life wrestling (most likely), but if I went on there and was fighting Oblivion for example and instead of doing stuff against Oblivion I was doing it against Derek (his real name) that'd be wrong. It's not only a lame thing to do, but it also shows your inability to write if you need to lower yourself to such cheap "tactics". Also stop the Deadpool references because as far as I am aware, not even Deadpooi says stuff about Spidermans writer. "everything goes" on the internet boards/internet match is not the case, nor has it ever been and if that is going to become the thing nowadays... people really need to learn how to handle their characters and perform on a level where they do not need to do something so stupid. The reason I believe the internet title belt is "anything goes" is an observation on how it's treated by and large rather than how it should be treated lol- Should is not something I really have an opinion on to be honest. Again though, the thing is that when it comes to the internet or hardcore belts, the thing is that the opponent has a chance to respond. If Z-Mac for example was to say that "Ted has never really been to Mexico and just likes Taco Bell and Rey Mysterio" (Only most of which is true) I would most likely respond to Z-Mac by saying something like "Our Internet champ has been responding to the wrong tweets again. Remember Z-Mac, you're supposed to eat Corn Chips, not Paint Chips." Or a similar one-liner. The internet title matches are (note: not "should be") currently all about trivializing your opponent's attacks, not necessarily by no-selling, but rather through humor, mockery, etcetera. The other thing is to trust the judges. If ANYBODY is using a cheap tactic or an unfair one, they'll notice it. There's a reason these matches are judged by an impartial 3rd party- they can recognize these things. I don't want to point fingers, and I'm not, but I think that we are not necessarily being completely fair. Most of the internet/hardcore matches that Z-Mac has won, the 4th wall has been one part of a huge, multi-pronged attack. I personally feel (though can't know for sure) that the 4th wall probably had the least impact on the judging compared to the humor, memes, etcetera, because those reflect the most effort. These are my observations on the matter.
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Post by SickWaves Blackamura on Apr 21, 2016 13:19:34 GMT -5
To be quite honest, I know that I get OOC salty from time to time as I'm a bit of a sensitive cunt and end up being a bit mean whether it be out of sympathy or whatever else, however at the end of the day, I am always willing to talk through problems and admit if I was out of line or being too sensitive. I know that Jay is one of the people who I've been unfair to in passing judgement on for things that I maybe wasn't seeing the big picture with and for that, I again apologize for. I've gotten into squabbles or had a bit of salt and butthurt with Rod/Kat, Dag, possibly a few DRG guys who I thought legit disliked me for leaving the stable. Truth is, many of us have our sensitivities and I'm starting to learn that. I see these things like Gonzo having to leave because of a good friend being in bad health or the recent Purgatory situation and it's these things that really make me think. At the end of the day, we all have a lot of other bullshit to deal with and it's unfair to make WCF into more bullshit for people. I value both the WCF and the people in it even though most of us have never met. Since this thread already seems a bit about hurt feelings and being more considerate of others, then I guess this is sort of my formal apology to Jay Omega and everyone else who I've been shitty towards. We may have had our butthurt or salty times... but you know I love you in the most creepy of ways... lol Don't you do everything in the most creepy of ways? Also, this is off topic, but is the new character a way of you doing a face thing and trying to get away from the "Kat is annoying" stigma?
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Post by Lilith on Apr 21, 2016 13:26:35 GMT -5
Teo, I love you... but what you wrote here was soooooo wrong. The Internet Title DOES and SHOULD have rules. Its called common decency. Prior to Kats death (lol) I probably used that board more than anyone, including ZMAC... and I have NEVER gone OOC on there. The only time I came kinda close was when Twilight was trying to get me to stumble after liking a post of his on there. Photoshopping a picture of someone onto something else is fine because that stuff would happen in real life wrestling (most likely), but if I went on there and was fighting Oblivion for example and instead of doing stuff against Oblivion I was doing it against Derek (his real name) that'd be wrong. It's not only a lame thing to do, but it also shows your inability to write if you need to lower yourself to such cheap "tactics". Also stop the Deadpool references because as far as I am aware, not even Deadpooi says stuff about Spidermans writer. "everything goes" on the internet boards/internet match is not the case, nor has it ever been and if that is going to become the thing nowadays... people really need to learn how to handle their characters and perform on a level where they do not need to do something so stupid. The reason I believe the internet title belt is "anything goes" is an observation on how it's treated by and large rather than how it should be treated lol- Should is not something I really have an opinion on to be honest. Again though, the thing is that when it comes to the internet or hardcore belts, the thing is that the opponent has a chance to respond. If Z-Mac for example was to say that "Ted has never really been to Mexico and just likes Taco Bell and Rey Mysterio" (Only most of which is true) I would most likely respond to Z-Mac by saying something like "Our Internet champ has been responding to the wrong tweets again. Remember Z-Mac, you're supposed to eat Corn Chips, not Paint Chips." Or a similar one-liner. The internet title matches are (note: not "should be") currently all about trivializing your opponent's attacks, not necessarily by no-selling, but rather through humor, mockery, etcetera. The other thing is to trust the judges. If ANYBODY is using a cheap tactic or an unfair one, they'll notice it. There's a reason these matches are judged by an impartial 3rd party- they can recognize these things. I don't want to point fingers, and I'm not, but I think that we are not necessarily being completely fair. Most of the internet/hardcore matches that Z-Mac has won, the 4th wall has been one part of a huge, multi-pronged attack. I personally feel (though can't know for sure) that the 4th wall probably had the least impact on the judging compared to the humor, memes, etcetera, because those reflect the most effort. These are my observations on the matter. The only reason the internet title is treated that way is because it is MISTREATED. That is the whole issue here. Even on twitter we should still remain in character. Thats like following some of your favorite WWE guys on twitter and then suddenly they're talking and acting like someone COMPLETELY different and targetting that at someone else who made no sense either. The twitter board and the rp board should NOT be looked at as two different things THAT MUCH... they're the same things, with the same characters... just an extension of the rp board. If people want to ditch the whole purpose of efedding (creating a character and playing as that character) we may as well just ditch that idea and turn the WCF into a forum where we argue about cat pictures lol (which I wouldnt be completely against, it sounds fun) And you can still use humor, mockery etc on the twitter boards... but go about it the RIGHT way.
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Post by Jeff Purse on Apr 21, 2016 13:28:39 GMT -5
To be quite honest, I know that I get OOC salty from time to time as I'm a bit of a sensitive cunt and end up being a bit mean whether it be out of sympathy or whatever else, however at the end of the day, I am always willing to talk through problems and admit if I was out of line or being too sensitive. I know that Jay is one of the people who I've been unfair to in passing judgement on for things that I maybe wasn't seeing the big picture with and for that, I again apologize for. I've gotten into squabbles or had a bit of salt and butthurt with Rod/Kat, Dag, possibly a few DRG guys who I thought legit disliked me for leaving the stable. Truth is, many of us have our sensitivities and I'm starting to learn that. I see these things like Gonzo having to leave because of a good friend being in bad health or the recent Purgatory situation and it's these things that really make me think. At the end of the day, we all have a lot of other bullshit to deal with and it's unfair to make WCF into more bullshit for people. I value both the WCF and the people in it even though most of us have never met. Since this thread already seems a bit about hurt feelings and being more considerate of others, then I guess this is sort of my formal apology to Jay Omega and everyone else who I've been shitty towards. Correct. WCF is a place for people to get away from their lives, not a place for them to get disrespected and made fun of, despite what they do or who they are. Its been that for a lot of people for a long time. Naturally, with a large group of people, there will be tension and bad feelings from time to time. It happens. And just because something doesn't offend you for example, it doesn't mean its not offensive. This OOC fourth wall breaking is a good example. Some people find it funny, some people get offended. The fact of the matter is at the end of the day we are supposed to be a community and a community sticks together for the good of everyone, not just the individual. We all have our own line of decency, and while some of us can get easily offended at simple things, their feelings should be treated as everyone elses. Point and case with this, how would you feel if someone in a shoot said "Your promos are boring and shitty." or something along those lines. I am sure you wouldn't like it. Its about empathizing with people, rather than sitting there and defending what offended. Ya know? PS the YOU in this paragraph isn't Spencer/Andre its a general you, I just quoted him cause I feel like they go together.
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Post by Lilith on Apr 21, 2016 13:28:59 GMT -5
We may have had our butthurt or salty times... but you know I love you in the most creepy of ways... lol Don't you do everything in the most creepy of ways? Also, this is off topic, but is the new character a way of you doing a face thing and trying to get away from the "Kat is annoying" stigma? To answer your question... If I said yes would you immediately be like "HA! It isnt working!" hahaha
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Post by 6ix God on Apr 21, 2016 13:32:21 GMT -5
For the record, Deadpool points out plot holes and bad writing all the time.
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Post by Lilith on Apr 21, 2016 13:36:00 GMT -5
For the record, Deadpool points out plot holes and bad writing all the time. Yeah but hes more like "HA Spiderman is doing that?" than... "HA the writer of Spiderman is a fool!", right?
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Post by SickWaves Blackamura on Apr 21, 2016 13:36:00 GMT -5
To be quite honest, I know that I get OOC salty from time to time as I'm a bit of a sensitive cunt and end up being a bit mean whether it be out of sympathy or whatever else, however at the end of the day, I am always willing to talk through problems and admit if I was out of line or being too sensitive. I know that Jay is one of the people who I've been unfair to in passing judgement on for things that I maybe wasn't seeing the big picture with and for that, I again apologize for. I've gotten into squabbles or had a bit of salt and butthurt with Rod/Kat, Dag, possibly a few DRG guys who I thought legit disliked me for leaving the stable. Truth is, many of us have our sensitivities and I'm starting to learn that. I see these things like Gonzo having to leave because of a good friend being in bad health or the recent Purgatory situation and it's these things that really make me think. At the end of the day, we all have a lot of other bullshit to deal with and it's unfair to make WCF into more bullshit for people. I value both the WCF and the people in it even though most of us have never met. Since this thread already seems a bit about hurt feelings and being more considerate of others, then I guess this is sort of my formal apology to Jay Omega and everyone else who I've been shitty towards. Correct. WCF is a place for people to get away from their lives, not a place for them to get disrespected and made fun of, despite what they do or who they are. Its been that for a lot of people for a long time. Naturally, with a large group of people, there will be tension and bad feelings from time to time. It happens. And just because something doesn't offend you for example, it doesn't mean its not offensive. This OOC fourth wall breaking is a good example. Some people find it funny, some people get offended. The fact of the matter is at the end of the day we are supposed to be a community and a community sticks together for the good of everyone, not just the individual. We all have our own line of decency, and while some of us can get easily offended at simple things, their feelings should be treated as everyone elses. Point and case with this, how would you feel if someone in a shoot said "Your promos are boring and shitty." or something along those lines. I am sure you wouldn't like it. Its about empathizing with people, rather than sitting there and defending what offended. Ya know? PS the YOU in this paragraph isn't Spencer/Andre its a general you, I just quoted him cause I feel like they go together. but what if my promos are boring and shitty? No, I get you though. It's kind of a weird mix of being too sensitive ourselves as well as maybe not considering the sensitivities of others. A lot of times I'm guilty of all this shit as I'm way too socially paranoid and take things a bit personal sometimes.
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Post by SickWaves Blackamura on Apr 21, 2016 13:36:47 GMT -5
Don't you do everything in the most creepy of ways? Also, this is off topic, but is the new character a way of you doing a face thing and trying to get away from the "Kat is annoying" stigma? To answer your question... If I said yes would you immediately be like "HA! It isnt working!" hahaha That was a serious question actually hahaha
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Post by Lilith on Apr 21, 2016 13:37:38 GMT -5
To answer your question... If I said yes would you immediately be like "HA! It isnt working!" hahaha That was a serious question actually hahaha Oh... Then yes. *waits for the "HA! It isnt working"* LOL
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Post by Sarah Twilight on Apr 21, 2016 13:40:08 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of breaking the fourth wall and never have been. The fourth wall is basically the thing that separates an efed from forums where people argue with each other over cat videos. We create characters for this crazy game we play and the entire goal of role playing is to tear down each other's characters not the handler of said characters. Our wrestlers should be oblivious to handlers because in the world of WCF the wrestlers exist the handlers do not. I think part of the reason why people get upset is that there are generally only two reasons to use OOC as part of a role play. 1) the writer is a weak writer who is incapable of being effective without the use of OOC. But this is a problem because the handler of ZMAC is not a weak writer by any means. (Anyone who says he is, is kidding themselves) so this brings up the second reason which is to use it as a way to take OOC pot shots. That is not the case here either but I can see why some people would get upset. As far as anyone blasting Odin in here ... That would be petty and dumb. I don't agree with the ZMAC character using OOC but at the end of the day it is what it is. We know to be in an efed you gotta have tough skin and not take things personally, although that is a little tougher to do when people play outside the boundaries of the game. OOC and IC are separate things for a reason. But, what you went on about with the liking tweets thing with Krystal was very OOC, and even if you didn't mean it that way first, you ought to have been able to take the hints Rod dropped and just let it go. But again, that's the Twitter board, which doesn't really matter.There was nothing OOC about that. Sarah Twilight as a character supposedly logging into Twitter would be able to see who has liked her posts because that's how Twitter works. So if our characters are supposed to be using Twitter that would be something that they can see, again because you can see likes on actual Twitter. That isn't some special thing that only happens in WCF. Now if Kat had liked the post and I had used OOC knowledge to now also attribute that like to Crystal THAT would be OOC. Everything about Sarah's comment was in character and even when KP skated the OOC line in response I kept it very in character. So I'm not quite sure how you are confusing this with 4th wall OOC. Breakdown is simple; Sarah Twilight seeing a character like their Twitter post is in character because that is a feature of Twitter. Sarah Twilight seeing someone liking my role plays would be breaking fourth wall because that isn't possible with the suspension of disbelief. Seeing Twitter likes IS very possible for the character.
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Post by 6ix God on Apr 21, 2016 13:58:32 GMT -5
For the record, Deadpool points out plot holes and bad writing all the time. Yeah but hes more like "HA Spiderman is doing that?" than... "HA the writer of Spiderman is a fool!", right? No lol.
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