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Post by Steve Orbit on Apr 21, 2016 10:00:46 GMT -5
Everybody wanna be a G til it's time to ride.
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Post by Gemini Battle on Apr 21, 2016 10:02:00 GMT -5
Everybody wanna be a G til it's time to ride. Says the white father pretending to be a black pimp
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Post by Steve Orbit on Apr 21, 2016 10:03:06 GMT -5
Everybody wanna be a G til it's time to ride. Says the white father pretending to be a black pimp Don't you dare break my fucking fourth wall bro.
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Post by Earth-616 Holmes on Apr 21, 2016 10:18:36 GMT -5
Says the white father pretending to be a black pimp Don't you dare break my fucking fourth wall bro. Prove yourself. In the movie "How High" with Method Man, and Redman, who said this line? "What up, Archiponegro." - Redman - Method Man - Asian Dude - White guy
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Post by Crow McMorris on Apr 21, 2016 10:24:34 GMT -5
Okay, so. Where to begin?
First things first. I'm a bit of a "ZOdin" mark (props to Dag for the name). I still count the match I had as Scarecrow two years ago against Odin as the pinnacle of my efedding experiance. I'd get up at around six on a work day, get ready for work, and, during the few minutes I had free over a slice of toast and coffee, read what Odin had said about Crow over the net. I'd try my best to reply; trying desperately to think of stuff as I'd iron out my clothes, lol.
The point is, ZOdin is a great writer. A great opponent and a cool guy. When you're in a feud with him it can be awesome.
This situation is unfortunate for all parties involved because I think we're missing an element of the picture here.
If you guys think back to the internet match between ZMAC and Wade Moor, there simply was no fourth wall. Everything and the kitchen sink was used. It was an epic battle. Two of my friends going at it tooth and nail for that belt. I'd wager that it's the greatest match for that belt since it's inception. It was like an intense prize fight; and it was real close too.
Maybe this was where the problems began, because nobody had a problem with it. Kaz and Zodin are good friends who are fine with the situation. Since no one complained, the fourth wall breakage continued, mostly unabated, from here on out. It became more prevalent too in ZMAC's roleplays as both styles began to merge into one. I think then, that's when the troubles really began.
Zmac is a very modern villain; he's an internet troll. And we all hate those. A lot of us have experienced trolling in real life. It's an awlful experiance. And ZMAC does touch that nerve, a very raw one for some, in those promos of his. Couple that style with some of the OOC stuff and it's a molotov cocktail thrown into a fireworks factory. Zmac is succeeding in his chosen role; but for some of the audience, it's too close to the knuckle. It sounds like real life trolling, which is the intention, but to hurt like real life trolling?
That would NEVER be Odin's intention.
ZMAC is a unique vision. He can be more though than just an OOC internet troll; there's levels to that character that Odin can explore if he wants to. He can be a villian in other ways if he chooses; his talent level is such that we probably won't even notice a skip in the beat if it changes it up. He's that good.
I think probably he does need to tinker a little with ZMAC: if only so that we all see what an incredible writer he is without the controversy getting in the way. The positive we can take from this experiance is that we're all learning as writers what works and what doesn't. What people find fine and what they consider unacceptable. Let's all learn from this and take something from it.
This group is the best circle of writers working in efedding today BAR...FUCKING...NONE. There is no better than this. Personally, I see no reason to R/P anywhere else, why drink water when you can have champaign? That's crazy talk.
And for five years, Zodin has been at the heart of all that. If you think of the uniqueness of this thread at all, then you begin to understand what a cool guy he is. I personally had no problem with the OOC stuff (chaotic neutral jibe included, lol) but I can see how others did and will endeavour myself not to hurt anyone's feeling again with my work. I have done so on a few sparse occasions in the past and felt terrible afterwards. If there's anyone out there I have hurt myself and I haven't appologised to, then I'm saying sorry right now.
I think though that there is a flip side to all this, and that is that we shouldn't take some of the foul language so seriously. If it can be justified as part of the story/character then we should accept it. This isn't FB, it's creative writing. These characters aren't real people, they're fictional manifestations of our imaginations. They have flaws, they're not all good.
Maybe that's why we need that fourth wall in place so much, to remind us of that fact. Not to toot the horn too much, but FB is a very poor second to what we do. We create. There's no better feeling than that.
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Lilith
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Post by Lilith on Apr 21, 2016 10:27:26 GMT -5
Okay, so. Where to begin? First things first. I'm a bit of a "ZOdin" mark (props to Dag for the name). I still count the match I had as Scarecrow two years ago against Odin as the pinnacle of my efedding experiance. I'd get up at around six on a work day, get ready for work, and, during the few minutes I had free over a slice of toast and coffee, read what Odin had said about Crow over the net. I'd try my best to reply; trying desperately to think of stuff as I'd iron out my clothes, lol. The point is, ZOdin is a great writer. A great opponent and a cool guy. When you're in a feud with him it can be awesome. This situation is unfortunate for all parties involved because I think we're missing an element of the picture here. If you guys think back to the internet match between ZMAC and Wade Moor, there simply was no fourth wall. Everything and the kitchen sink was used. It was an epic battle. Two of my friends going at it tooth and nail for that belt. I'd wager that it's the greatest match for that belt since it's inception. It was like an intense prize fight; and it was real close too. Maybe this was where the problems began, because nobody had a problem with it. Kaz and Zodin are good friends who are fine with the situation. Since no one complained, the fourth wall breakage continued, mostly unabated, from here on out. It became more prevalent too in ZMAC's roleplays as both styles began to merge into one. I think then, that's when the troubles really began. Zmac is a very modern villain; he's an internet troll. And we all hate those. A lot of us have experienced trolling in real life. It's an awlful experiance. And ZMAC does touch that nerve, a very raw one for some, in those promos of his. Couple that style with some of the OOC stuff and it's a molotov cocktail thrown into a fireworks factory. Zmac is succeeding in his chosen role; but for some of the audience, it's too close to the knuckle. It sounds like real life trolling, which is the intention, but to hurt like real life trolling? That would NEVER be Odin's intention. ZMAC is a unique vision. He can be more though than just an OOC internet troll; there's levels to that character that Odin can explore if he wants to. He can be a villian in other ways if he chooses; his talent level is such that we probably won't even notice a skip in the beat if it changes it up. He's that good. I think probably he does need to tinker a little with ZMAC: if only so that we all see what an incredible writer he is without the controversy getting in the way. The positive we can take from this experiance is that we're all learning as writers what works and what doesn't. What people find fine and what they consider unacceptable. Let's all learn from this and take something from it. This group is the best circle of writers working in efedding today BAR...FUCKING...NONE. There is no better than this. Personally, I see no reason to R/P anywhere else, why drink water when you can have champaign? That's crazy talk. And for five years, Zodin has been at the heart of all that. If you think of the uniqueness of this thread at all, then you begin to understand what a cool guy he is. I personally had no problem with the OOC stuff (chaotic neutral jibe included, lol) but I can see how others did and will endeavour myself not to hurt anyone's feeling again with my work. I have done so on a few sparse occasions in the past and felt terrible afterwards. If there's anyone out there I have hurt myself and I haven't appologised to, then I'm saying sorry right now. I think though that there is a flip side to all this, and that is that we shouldn't take some of the foul language so seriously. If it can be justified as part of the story/character then we should accept it. This isn't FB, it's creative writing. These characters aren't real people, they're fictional manifestations of our imaginations. They have flaws, they're not all good. Maybe that's why we need that fourth wall in place so much, to remind us of that fact. Not to toot the horn too much, but FB is a very poor second to what we do. We create. There's no better feeling than that. tl;dr just kidding lol
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Post by Shadowlove on Apr 21, 2016 10:38:09 GMT -5
As part of the Hardcore match thread last week, I don't feel that any sort of apology is necessary. I think everyone that truly participated in this match would agree that what made this match great was it's emotional factor.
It was what this match needed to be. I'm sure Andre, and Bonnie, and myself would agree that Zmac made that happen because it brought the very best out of each of us in our very own unique way. And those that don't agree, it is just sour grapes on their part. In my short time here, Zmac is one of the few characters that drive the organization in a good way.
If you aren't saying, "you goddamn sonivabitch" to yourself and laughing at the same time while you're saying that then you are taking Zmac to seriously. The Hardcore Championship came down to four people, Andre, Bonnie, Zmac, and myself. And Andre won, deservingly so, because of the emotional nuances of the match.
Fourth wall or no fourth wall, Zmac is Zmac, don't let anyone dictate the way that you want to portray your character and that can be said for everyone else in this organization. Your character is your character, it's up to you, and only you, that decides what, where, when, why and how your character should be portrayed.
Apologize only to the one that you feel like you need to apologize to.
Remember, we are all doing this for fun!
Thank you very much!
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Lilith
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Post by Lilith on Apr 21, 2016 10:43:04 GMT -5
As part of the Hardcore match thread last week, I don't feel that any sort of apology is necessary. I think everyone that truly participated in this match would agree that what made this match great was it's emotional factor.
It was what this match needed to be. I'm sure Andre, and Bonnie, and myself would agree that Zmac made that happen because it brought the very best out of each of us in our very own unique way. And those that don't agree, it is just sour grapes on their part. In my short time here, Zmac is one of the few characters that drive the organization in a good way.
If you aren't saying, "you goddamn sonivabitch" to yourself and laughing at the same time while you're saying that then you are taking Zmac to seriously. The Hardcore Championship came down to four people, Andre, Bonnie, Zmac, and myself. And Andre won, deservingly so, because of the emotional nuances of the match.
Fourth wall or no fourth wall, Zmac is Zmac, don't let anyone dictate the way that you want to portray your character and that can be said for everyone else in this organization. Your character is your character, it's up to you, and only you, that decides what, where, when, why and how your character should be portrayed.
Apologize only to the one that you feel like you need to apologize to.
Remember, we are all doing this for fun!
Thank you very much! I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. I'm not going to go into who got upset over what, but I will say this... when you have someone say what they said, it will not always make you go harder in your rping, if it upset you (which it did in this case), it could make you be like "Why even bother?" which I cant help but feel was the case in this scenario with the persons involved.
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Post by Jeff Purse on Apr 21, 2016 10:49:42 GMT -5
As part of the Hardcore match thread last week, I don't feel that any sort of apology is necessary. I think everyone that truly participated in this match would agree that what made this match great was it's emotional factor.
It was what this match needed to be. I'm sure Andre, and Bonnie, and myself would agree that Zmac made that happen because it brought the very best out of each of us in our very own unique way. And those that don't agree, it is just sour grapes on their part. In my short time here, Zmac is one of the few characters that drive the organization in a good way.
If you aren't saying, "you goddamn sonivabitch" to yourself and laughing at the same time while you're saying that then you are taking Zmac to seriously. The Hardcore Championship came down to four people, Andre, Bonnie, Zmac, and myself. And Andre won, deservingly so, because of the emotional nuances of the match.
Fourth wall or no fourth wall, Zmac is Zmac, don't let anyone dictate the way that you want to portray your character and that can be said for everyone else in this organization. Your character is your character, it's up to you, and only you, that decides what, where, when, why and how your character should be portrayed.
Apologize only to the one that you feel like you need to apologize to.
Remember, we are all doing this for fun!
Thank you very much!
My issue with fourth wall breaking and 'playing your character how you want' is that in situations like this, you are attacking the person not the character. I could make Jeff come out and say "Rod, you suck at writing." or a variation of that as part of my shoot, but its just Jeff saying that. Its not me. See where it gets gray?
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Lilith
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Post by Lilith on Apr 21, 2016 10:52:44 GMT -5
As part of the Hardcore match thread last week, I don't feel that any sort of apology is necessary. I think everyone that truly participated in this match would agree that what made this match great was it's emotional factor.
It was what this match needed to be. I'm sure Andre, and Bonnie, and myself would agree that Zmac made that happen because it brought the very best out of each of us in our very own unique way. And those that don't agree, it is just sour grapes on their part. In my short time here, Zmac is one of the few characters that drive the organization in a good way.
If you aren't saying, "you goddamn sonivabitch" to yourself and laughing at the same time while you're saying that then you are taking Zmac to seriously. The Hardcore Championship came down to four people, Andre, Bonnie, Zmac, and myself. And Andre won, deservingly so, because of the emotional nuances of the match.
Fourth wall or no fourth wall, Zmac is Zmac, don't let anyone dictate the way that you want to portray your character and that can be said for everyone else in this organization. Your character is your character, it's up to you, and only you, that decides what, where, when, why and how your character should be portrayed.
Apologize only to the one that you feel like you need to apologize to.
Remember, we are all doing this for fun!
Thank you very much!
My issue with fourth wall breaking and 'playing your character how you want' is that in situations like this, you are attacking the person not the character. I could make Jeff come out and say "Rod, you suck at writing." or a variation of that as part of my shoot, but its just Jeff saying that. Its not me. See where it gets gray? ...why does everyone always have to use me as an example when they say someone sucks at writing... Lol
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Post by Jeff Purse on Apr 21, 2016 11:00:29 GMT -5
Funnily enough, though, I was not responsible for one of the PMs Odin was told about.
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Post by Sarah Twilight on Apr 21, 2016 11:02:05 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of breaking the fourth wall and never have been. The fourth wall is basically the thing that separates an efed from forums where people argue with each other over cat videos.
We create characters for this crazy game we play and the entire goal of role playing is to tear down each other's characters not the handler of said characters.
Our wrestlers should be oblivious to handlers because in the world of WCF the wrestlers exist the handlers do not.
I think part of the reason why people get upset is that there are generally only two reasons to use OOC as part of a role play. 1) the writer is a weak writer who is incapable of being effective without the use of OOC. But this is a problem because the handler of ZMAC is not a weak writer by any means. (Anyone who says he is, is kidding themselves) so this brings up the second reason which is to use it as a way to take OOC pot shots. That is not the case here either but I can see why some people would get upset.
As far as anyone blasting Odin in here ... That would be petty and dumb.
I don't agree with the ZMAC character using OOC but at the end of the day it is what it is. We know to be in an efed you gotta have tough skin and not take things personally, although that is a little tougher to do when people play outside the boundaries of the game.
OOC and IC are separate things for a reason.
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Lilith
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Post by Lilith on Apr 21, 2016 11:03:53 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of breaking the fourth wall and never have been. The fourth wall is basically the thing that separates an efed from forums where people argue with each other over cat videos. Wait.... is that an actual thing?! !!! Where has this been all my life?!!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 11:15:16 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of breaking the fourth wall and never have been. The fourth wall is basically the thing that separates an efed from forums where people argue with each other over cat videos. We create characters for this crazy game we play and the entire goal of role playing is to tear down each other's characters not the handler of said characters. Our wrestlers should be oblivious to handlers because in the world of WCF the wrestlers exist the handlers do not. I think part of the reason why people get upset is that there are generally only two reasons to use OOC as part of a role play. 1) the writer is a weak writer who is incapable of being effective without the use of OOC. But this is a problem because the handler of ZMAC is not a weak writer by any means. (Anyone who says he is, is kidding themselves) so this brings up the second reason which is to use it as a way to take OOC pot shots. That is not the case here either but I can see why some people would get upset. As far as anyone blasting Odin in here ... That would be petty and dumb. I don't agree with the ZMAC character using OOC but at the end of the day it is what it is. We know to be in an efed you gotta have tough skin and not take things personally, although that is a little tougher to do when people play outside the boundaries of the game. OOC and IC are separate things for a reason. But, what you went on about with the liking tweets thing with Krystal was very OOC, and even if you didn't mean it that way first, you ought to have been able to take the hints Rod dropped and just let it go. But again, that's the Twitter board, which doesn't really matter.
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Post by Corey Black on Apr 21, 2016 11:17:14 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of breaking the fourth wall and never have been. The fourth wall is basically the thing that separates an efed from forums where people argue with each other over cat videos. Wait.... is that an actual thing?! !!! Where has this been all my life?!!! Second attempt: It has always been, you're just too busy trolling us to find and troll them. NAILED IT.
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Lilith
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Post by Lilith on Apr 21, 2016 11:24:27 GMT -5
Wait.... is that an actual thing?! !!! Where has this been all my life?!!! Second attempt: It has always been, you're just too busy trolling us to find and troll them. NAILED IT. Sorry, CD... but we have to accept your first answer and you not only failed yourself, but you failed each and every one of us as well
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Post by Oath Breaker on Apr 21, 2016 11:49:19 GMT -5
Sometimes a person forgets which board they are on. Whoops, supposed to be IC, my bad. Everybody is cool again.
Sometimes a person can't separate IC from OOC. This is something much deeper and more personal. These people should not be e-fedding, regardless of how talented they are, because they need to be taking care of some deeper mental disorder first. When you cannot separate fantasy element from reality central, there is a serious problem.
Is this the case in WCF? Don't know. Is it a case with any of our writers here? Haven't been here long enough to notice it myself. Does the internet post board make it easier to blur those lines? For some, maybe. Should the Fourth Wall exist? Absolutely. If for any reason but to ensure our own sanity at the end of the day, for those of us that are still sane.
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Post by The Polar Phantasm on Apr 21, 2016 12:00:16 GMT -5
I'm not touching this.
I agree with what Twilight said, basically- you are not your character, you are working in character versus other characters who are not the people that write them, you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. Ok, some of that might've been Tyler Durden, but still.
I really shouldn't be in this thread, though. I'm as bad as anybody about doing exactly what I'm saying you shouldn't do. Polar himself knows that he was created by a comedian from New Orleans; it's a bit I've used twice before and will probably use again. That said, I didn't show up to tell Polar that Sarah Twilight is a dude. That would've made no sense and confused the fuck out of him, being that Sarah Twilight is not a dude but in fact a really scary woman. Sure, Sarah Twilight might actually be written by a dude- a dude who, let's be fair here, is probably nowhere near as frightening a human being as the character he portrays. I hope that about most of you people, actually. Except Logan; I hope someday to meet that dude, and I hope our likely time in a holding cell is a fun bonding experience. Before you ask, I'm not cornholing anything for later use; I don't care what you've already got in there, you're just going to have to make room.
-B.
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Post by Jay Omega on Apr 21, 2016 12:00:23 GMT -5
Thought I'd chime in, since I'm someone who was so obviously butthurt over the issue.
My main issue with ZMAC's fourth wall breakage is the excessive use. Almost all of us are guilty of slipping in a joke here and there; I've literally lampshaded how I paint the fourth wall in an RP or two. But when you slip back and forth between in and out of character as often as ZMAC does, it makes it impossible to know what's supposed to be in or out of character. Some of the stuff he says just doesn't make sense from an IC standpoint, so I end up taking the whole thing OOC. I know that's my problem, but Odin has stated that he doesn't need the 4th wall stuff to be competitive. As others have stated, anyone with an inkling of WCF history, myself included, knows this to be true.
Even though my feelings were hurt, I'm still an OOC fan of Odin and his characters. Some of the most fun I've ever had in efedding was that HC title match against him and Tommy Bates. "My Two Buddies" still brings a smile to my face more than a year later. But there wasn't a whole lot of 4th wall breakage that week. Oh there was some, to be sure. It really is an intrinsic part of the ZMAC character, just as it is with Jay Omega. But that week it was pretty much only used for light jokes, not character-based jabs.
Remember people, humour is subjective; not everyone finds the same things funny. An OOC jab may cause you to laugh it off and up your ante. But it might cause someone else to doubt their ability, and walk away from the game feeling like an unwanted outcast. There's a difference between OOC statements, and OOC references. ZMAC wouldn't be ZMAC without some OOC references, but we don't need to use our RPs to make OOC statements.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 12:04:03 GMT -5
Can I laugh at this? It all feels really awkward. There is nothing funny about true love. Yes there is! This has Rom-Com written all over it! My .02 on the matter. 4th wall breaks on occasion, when the character and handler seem to have similarities (it happens) that come out in RP's or the handling of characters seems okay. But when it happens on a constant basis? Yeah, that blurs the lines a bit too much and in some cases seems more like a way to discredit the character and the handler at the same time. I haven't had any interaction with the Zombie character, but if this happened to me on a consistent basis, I probably wouldn't be too thrilled at the aspect of facing him, and would probably discredit him in the same manner. That just makes for crappy RP's that look more like pissing contests OOC on the IC Boards, rather than actual legitimate competition.
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