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Post by Seth on May 2, 2012 16:23:12 GMT -5
Since we've had a TINY bit of controversy over judging lately, I feel like maybe its time to talk about it a bit. Heres some quick comments from yours truly about things that I like/don't like. I wouldn't ever recommend that someone writes just to please a judge, they should write how they want to write, but just to give you a little more idea what I look for.
1. The usual spelling/grammar/capitalization/etc. This one should be obvious. If you roleplay, you should probably always endeavor to keep up with this kind of thing as best you can.
2. This is a personal bias, but one thing I'm not the biggest fan of is rants without context. If your whole roleplay is just you talking trash and nothing else, I feel like thats not super creative. Just by putting "From Seth Lerch's Blog:" or something at the top at least gives it SOME context, but RPing like that exclusively isn't recommended.
3. This one might be controversial, but avoid YouTube videos (ESPECIALLY ones not created by yourself) in your RPs. Not a huge deal (and not even writing related) and maybe its just a pet peeve of mine, but in my opinion they don't add much.
4. Character development and match focus are equally important. RPs shouldn't really be either/or, most times they should have a little bit of both, if possible.
5. At the end of the day, "effort" really matters also. I can tell when someone puts work into their roleplaying, in the writing and the thought that went into it, and when someone doesn't. This is where length/number of RPs comes into play.
Now here is where I want to start the discussion. Any opinions on where we should draw the line with length and whatnot? Both sides of this issue are going to have points. When I first came back to WCF I was going to attempt to focus on shorter roleplays rather than longer ones, but I've kind of fallen off the track with that.
Sorry for using names but this shouldn't be surprising to anybody, on one hand you have Jonny Fly and Sarah Twilight who represent the length side of things. Then two people like Johnny Reb and NvL who post RPs of a good length but not to the extent of a Fly and Twilight. All four people I mentioned are great writers, and a Reb or NvL can get across just as much in a roleplay as Fly or Twilight.
So, WCF, thoughts on which way you'd like me to swing with judging? Should I go back to trying to give a little less attention to length?
(Also, any other questions or comments? Feel free.)
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Post by Gein Spector on May 2, 2012 16:29:36 GMT -5
My personal opinion on length is, did it need to be so long or did you say enough in a short one? The whole point is to get the story/fued/match across. It depends on if the time and space is used wisely. I tried working in feds with length limits and all it did was limit other people just to cater to the ones who write shorter (not saying WCF is doing that.)
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Post by Logan on May 2, 2012 16:36:28 GMT -5
I think that length matters when the writing is interesting. If it's paragraphs and paragraphs of trash talk essentially repeated over and over then it's not even worth reading.
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Post by Jonny Fly on May 2, 2012 16:36:51 GMT -5
My personal opinion on length is, did it need to be so long or did you say enough in a short one? The whole point is to get the story/fued/match across. It depends on if the time and space is used wisely. I tried working in feds with length limits and all it did was limit other people just to cater to the ones who write shorter (not saying WCF is doing that.) I'm stating this from my own perspective: There is usually something I'm trying to accomplish with an RP. Not always, but most of it is planned out in advance and written to get the points I want across or further a storyline or whatever. I write some longer RP's during bigger matches because there is usually a lot to say/do. They weren't as long when I first joined because there was nothing going on back then with the character. I feel there are some underrated guys here who may be overlooked due to length (guessing), and that's not good. Still, I guess I would disagree with a word limit or EMPHASIS on short RP's because I think you'll see it limit creativity. I guess increasing RP limits could compensate for that, but then, what would really be the point? Just me. We all have our style. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2012 17:04:11 GMT -5
I tend to write longer roleplays, with a purpose, much like Fly, I have a plan drawn out and tell the story from point A to point B. In big matches, there is a lot to cover and so roleplays may get longer. Some of my roleplays aren't as long as others because they don't need to be. But the way I've always looked at it is, all roleplays and all roleplayers are not the same. If judging is based on a roleplay's length or shortness, that does limit creativity by a lot. In my experience, I can definitely say that a GOOD shorter roleplay can beat out a long one, especially if there is no purpose to the long one other than to be long. I don't think length should really matter much. If you read two roleplays that are competing against one another. Only the quality should matter. If the longer roleplay is of better quality and more entertaining, and more relevant, then that roleplay should be judged as such. Same scenario if the shorter roleplay fills that criteria. Overall, a quality roleplayer is going to shine, length or not.  |
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Post by Corey Black on May 2, 2012 17:05:09 GMT -5
/avoids thread entirely
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Post by Seth on May 2, 2012 17:17:59 GMT -5
By posting that you are avoiding a thread entirely you are in actuality NOT avoiding a thread!
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Post by Jonny Fly on May 2, 2012 17:22:13 GMT -5
I'll say this.
Perhaps my favorite RP posted in the past few weeks was Logan's Coffee Cake RP, and that wasn't very long. Of course, I'm humor bias, and I don't remember exactly, but that RP probably didn't talk much about the match at hand. haha
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Kyle
Mid-Carder
Posts: 967
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Post by Kyle on May 2, 2012 17:47:40 GMT -5
I thank Seth for the compliment about my roleplays, but look back in history and my roleplays haven't stood tall against Fly. Yet  This dispute about length has always been around since e-fedding got started, and it will never disappear. Personally I don't have a problem about length. Just as long as writers understand that even though it is long, it doesn't make it better. Length can easily be supplimented by filler, and filler doesn't win matches. But don't think I'm naming people; it is just common fact. My roleplays vary in length according to who I am facing that particular week. As you will see this week, when I'm facing the jobbers, my roleplay length might not be as long as usual (I hope not). But when I fought Benjamin last week, I put up my longest promo since I got here in WCF. My style can be classified as a "match my opponent and then some." If it doesn't need to be long to get my point across, it won't be long for me. But if I'm facing Fly or Twilight one on one with my writing muse high and time on my hand, odds are I'll attempt to put up something bigger than them. Quality is what matters. And if it comes in a bigger package, so be it. I won't diss any of the long roleplayers (mainly because I couldn't beat one of them). It just isn't the style of some of us. Doesn't mean anyone person is better than the other. I'll put this in terms that WCF people will understand. Seth isn't judging the size of our dicks. Just the quality of production that comes along with it. ;D |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2012 17:52:48 GMT -5
I'm sympathetic to Seth and anyone that judges roleplays. Did it myself for part of 2011 and it was a bitch for sure. As for the issue at hand, length. Well, we all know that a Big Dick Superstar puts a premium on length, but width is also important. I keed, I keed. I don't like to place limits on creativity. If somebody wants to write 10,000 words then go crazy with that motherfucker. The issue for me is and always will be two-fold: quality and substance. Is the RP well-written and does it make a point? 8,000 words of utter horseshit doesn't deserve to win against 2,000 words of pure awesome ass-fucking delight. That doesn't mean the RP needs to include literal ass-fucking, but it should give you the same feeling of ecstasy as ass-fucking.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2012 17:57:00 GMT -5
My roleplays vary in length according to who I am facing that particular week. As you will see this week, when I'm facing the jobbers, my roleplay length might not be as long as usual (I hope not). But when I fought Benjamin last week, I put up my longest promo since I got here in WCF. My style can be classified as a "match my opponent and then some." If it doesn't need to be long to get my point across, it won't be long for me. But if I'm facing Fly or Twilight one on one with my writing muse high and time on my hand, odds are I'll attempt to put up something bigger than them. That's one thing that I like about your roleplays, in addition to the fact that you have your character down pat. You always seem to one-up your opponents and beat them at their own game. |
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Post by Gein Spector on May 2, 2012 17:57:57 GMT -5
To make the major point short for people.
IMDB ratings:
Dark Knight (2008) Rating: 8.9 (2 hours 32 mins)
12 Angry Men (1957) Rating: 8.9 (1 hour 36 mins)
both completely different, both +100 thousand votes, both great movies, and two extremely different lengths
(Those who don't know. There are only four movies that are rated 8.9 on IMDB)
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Post by Jonny Fly on May 2, 2012 18:03:27 GMT -5
I'm sympathetic to Seth and anyone that judges roleplays. Did it myself for part of 2011 and it was a bitch for sure. As for the issue at hand, length. Well, we all know that a Big Dick Superstar puts a premium on length, but width is also important. I keed, I keed. I don't like to place limits on creativity. If somebody wants to write 10,000 words then go crazy with that motherfucker. The issue for me is and always will be two-fold: quality and substance. Is the RP well-written and does it make a point? 8,000 words of utter horseshit doesn't deserve to win against 2,000 words of pure awesome ass-fucking delight. That doesn't mean the RP needs to include literal ass-fucking, but it should give you the same feeling of ecstasy as ass-fucking. /thread |
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Post by FPV on May 2, 2012 18:30:22 GMT -5
Meh, I've never really been the best at long RPs, but I feel that's probably for the better, although recently I HAVE been putting out longer RPs. I guess I put bigger RPs up when something interesting is happening that week for me, for instance, for this jobber match this week, expect a one-line RP from me, just to make sure. On the other hand, if I'm out there facing someone like...oh, I don't know...PHILLIP BAINES....then yeah, expect me to be a bit more wordy, because I actually have stuff to say.
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Post by Doc Henry on May 2, 2012 19:11:37 GMT -5
I'll admit, the bigger the match, the more effort I tend to put into it... Prolly why I have yet to break the 50 win barrier... Either way, I still try to get my point across... I've never been one for padding anything I write, I get to the point and get done... I look at my RPs and(language and content aside) ask myself, 'Could i see this on WWE or TNA?'... Hell, I do the same in spoken convos as well... To me I'd much rather read a short entertaining RP than some long diatribe... Maybe I have a bit of ADHD or something, because even if I like an RP, after a bit reading a long one I do have a tendancys to start skimming for the highlights...
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Kira Sakazaki
Mid-Carder
I'm your favourite lowcarder~!
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Post by Kira Sakazaki on May 2, 2012 21:00:26 GMT -5
ummm.... just a curiosity, what do you think about my roleplay so far? i know that i always botched my english too much but is that the ponit that makes me lose a match? do you have any suggestion about my RP writing? xD
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2012 21:31:09 GMT -5
I believe like most here in quality over quantity. Personally, I always feel that the point where I will write an ending to an RP is when I reach a point in it where I'm simply repeating myself or adding filler to pad it. I usually average about 1500 to 2000 words, which is not all that long but I figure I'd rather at least have it mean something than be over 9000 words of crap; and this is not to offend those who write long quality RPs because if you can go that length and have it be quality, the more power to you and you should definitely be proud of being a good writer.
I usually put more effort into an RP if I have a storyline or a match I really want to have. I don't pretend that my RPs are great by any stretch because they're not but I usually have fun writing them and try to be creative as best I can. Like Doc, I like to think "Could this happen in WWE or TNA?" and have fun and roll with it. I read the RPs from some of you guys like NvL, Fly, Twilight, Phantasm, and others and I have nothing but respect because the writing is just so solid. That Court TV thing for Aftermath, I thought that was brilliant! I think the judging in this fed is actually some of the fairest I've seen compared to a lot of places that have nothing but nepotism and constant politicking.
But back to the point, if two people write RPs and both are of solid quality and one happens to be longer than the other, it's a judgment call of which is better but length alone shouldn't determine it. If however, one is very long but a turd and the other is short and sweet, then the short one should get the nod.
And Kira, I like your style, it's solid and interesting. Your grammar really doesn't detract from it in my view as I can still understand the full point of your RPs and they come across as strong regardless.
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Johnny Stylez
Rookie
Internet Champion...SOak that up bitchez
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Post by Johnny Stylez on May 3, 2012 0:17:00 GMT -5
Here is my two cents on the matter. Everywhere I've gone people are always having a length debate when I think that should always be a dead issue because here is the thing. As rpers we all have different style. A rp is whatever the writer decides to write. There should be no limit on the story they try and tell...Putting a limit on it only makes things worse as I have been forced into a situation like that and it really hinders you. Some people write long rps some don't...At the end of the day it's whose rp was more entertaining. How loing is it has nothing to do with it. Its just some of us have more to say or thats our way to tell our story. So as long as it's entertaining and enjoyable to read who gives a phuck how long it is or isn't...?
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Post by The Polar Phantasm on May 3, 2012 5:51:12 GMT -5
Kid Phantasm and Nightmare may be professional wrestlers...
...but I'm a story-teller.
Judge them how you will, but I can't help what I am. In fact, I won't even try. If that'll be the death of me, then so be it, and I'll drag as many of you mother fuckers with me as I can.
Because this is fun.
This is some sort of weird game-thing we play where we get to write short fiction on the Internet. As far as I'm concerned, you can play to win... which is like rushing through an RPG to kill some dragon at the end of some dungeon... or you can explore the whole fuckin' thing and meet all the weird side characters and stuff before you finally decide to even look for an 'ending'... and even then, you can come right back just to manage some new guys or even start at the bottom of the ladder again. This is fun because we make it - each and every bit of it. Every picture that is painted is painted in our minds with our words. It's some amazing shit when you think about it.
I am one of those who's here to explore this place and meet all of the weird characters... to explore the boundaries of this universe. So if I spend eight hours working on an RP it's not because I desperately want to beat some dude for some belt... it's because I really wanted all of you to know what all of it would look like. What it looks like to me. What it feels like. This is a world... a created one, albeit, but a world. And we all share it. This is a game you can shit-talk your way into title shots in... or this is a game where you could spend years just figuring out who your character is and why his or her friends and enemies do what they do and are who they are.
Make the judging policy whatever you want... it's your sandbox and I'm just playing in it. But as long as you'll let me play in it, I will tell my story... which slowly but surely is kind of becoming 'our story'.
It's an honor working with you gentlemen and ladies... and as always, thanks for your time.
-B.
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Post by Dean Mason on May 3, 2012 6:59:57 GMT -5
I know I'm not a member but if you want an extra opinion from an outsider, I'll throw my two cents in, just ignore me if you're uninterested.
My personal opinion is that length doesn't matter, as long as you've said enough about your opponent. I like to read roleplays where the writer tells you his thoughts, opinions, storylines, everything and I don't feel you can do that in a few hundred words.
I'm always about opponent focus and THEN character development. I like to see both but opponent focus for me is and always has been the key - it just feels more realistic. A character going to shop or having a wank doesn't have anything to do with the guy who's been kicking his ass on the show recently.
I do tend to think it's difficult to get enough of both in in less than a thousand words but I also feel that it's extremely difficult for anyone to realistically write more than 2-3 thousand words without it being boring eventually. It takes a skill to do that and not everyone every week is capable of writing a lot and keeping it entertaining.
I believe it's about finding a balance. My advice to the writers is to find out what you (Seth) like and cater too it. That's the best way to compete successfully in any federation where someone is the judge of the roleplays themselves. Find out what he or she likes and then adapt.
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