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Post by Zione Redington on Apr 7, 2015 16:19:43 GMT -5
wcfwrestling.proboards.com/thread/23940/debut-more-beginning-domination
Hello, everyone!
Just wondering what you all thought of my debut RP, I know not a lot of time went by since I posted it, meaning I can wait a bit if you have feedback you're willing to give...
Like I've said to a few already, I'm not the best at starting out, since I'm still trying to figure out where I want to take the character, what I want to do, how I want him to develop and whatnot... but I still thought it'd be nice to get to know what you all thought about it!
For anyone who may give feedback / advice, thank you in advance!
And anyone who may not give feedback / advice, for shame!
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Post by Odin Balfore on Apr 7, 2015 16:27:15 GMT -5
I'll hit you up when I get out of work later. It'll be worth the wait.
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Post by florianstark on Apr 7, 2015 16:31:21 GMT -5
Since we're in a match together I've had a quick read through it, but I haven't looked closely enough to feel like I can give you proper feedback yet. I'll definitely do it once I've got to work on my own RP (would hate for you to win because I was too busy analysing your work aha ). The thing I can definitely comment on, I like the structure and I didnt struggle to read bits because paragraphs were too long or formatting was poor, so stylistically it gets a thumbs up from me!
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Post by Zione Redington on Apr 7, 2015 16:35:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't like reading through block after block of text that aren't separated, since they really do make it hard to read and identify what's going on, which is why I try to avoid that type of thing. Thanks for that man!
And no rush, Odin. Whenever you have time I'm cool!
Thanks guys.
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Post by Joey Flash on Apr 7, 2015 16:42:46 GMT -5
I'll hit you up when I get out of work later. It'll be worth the wait. This better be the return of your RP evaluation shit mothafucca!!!!!!!
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Post by Odin Balfore on Apr 7, 2015 17:29:37 GMT -5
It might.
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Post by Kaz on Apr 7, 2015 18:12:08 GMT -5
Got me all boned up over here AllFadduh.
I'll take a look at it as well whenever I get off work. I don't know if I can offer as much insight as Odin, but I can try haha.
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Post by marcmayhem on Apr 7, 2015 18:13:39 GMT -5
Odin is a great resource for rp help. He gets my stamp of approval.
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Post by Odin Balfore on Apr 8, 2015 0:07:18 GMT -5
RP:A Debut? More like a Beginning of Domination
Handler: Zione
Overview thoughts: This debut had a fair amount to it. I got character development, shoot and back story. Little, but I got it.
RP Breakdown
Scene description: 2
Character Development: 2
Shoot: 3
Flow: 3
Overall Rating: 2.5 out of 5
Critical Review:
The style for the promo is fine but it is lacking in every area. I know this is a debut but one guy might see this and just whack you and its over. You wrote more about the stone wall that Zione sat against more than you did the gym or even Zione himself. Even in the scene dark room scene, Ziones in a dark room. And? The guy that pushes himself to the limit limits himself to a dim lit rooms? The scene was unnecessary. All of that could have been said IN the gym while Zione was in the back or the juice bar or something other than a dark room scene. It is your choice to do that but its a poor choice because the scene didnt serve the shoot in any way.
Scene Descript: Lets talk about that. You didn't do a whole lot of it. Reasons known to you, cool. But There are guys here that will paint pictures and movies with words. You don't need to do something like that but there needs to be more than what you wrote. You wrote a lot of action words but not a lot of description. I know nothing about the gym but I feel like I took the heavy bag on a date.
CD: Its there. We learned about Ziones school and hating of the same routine but yet here he comes into boxing for.. THE SAME ROUTINE.
“ it had been a typical day for Zione. He had been back in the gym, the exact place he had been for the past month almost. Every day have been an almost exact replica…”
WHY!? If he hated school so much why does he enjoy this? What makes this different? Why does he like the challenge? Why didnt he make school challenging like he did boxing if he had aptitude for it? Then he admits he went from knowing zero boxing to being a top star in 5 years? I gave you a 2 because all your CD did was raise questions that I as the reader didnt get the answer to. Its not even a cliff hanger thing where I want to read and find out more. Seems you painted yourself into the “ Too good” corner. Guesss Zione likes the challenge of getting his ass kicked rather than the challenge of being a doctor or a scientist.
Shoot: I got these two slices of bread named Scene Discription and character development and I got the thinest piece of government cheese to put in it. Why do you gotta play me like that?
“I’m destined to succeed, to reach the pinnacle, the peak, the top of the mountain.
“Meanwhile, you’re all destined to linger at the bottom, forever and always.
“It’s going to be like that for the rest of your career here, and it’ll eat at you like a fox chewing into the stomach of a young, Spartan warrior.”
Why does this exist? Details, bro. I read this it tells me that Zione is going to win because he's awesome and too cool for school and he is A number 1 and he just painted himself into the “ too good corner.” No fucks are given about your shoot because theres no meat on it. You took the flavor out of my government cheese.
Flow: It was a struggle. I got double line breaks after single sentences for no reason. I have dialogue into description in one line then I have dialouge with a double break into description. It was a mess.
Suggestions:
Scene desript: You started off great. I was digging the heavy bag thing. I dated and fucked the heavy bag. The rest of the scene was like rubber necking at the mall. Extend your scene description. Give the reader more. I dont need to know what color shoes the trainer wears but I need to know things about the gym. I can fill on a lot of info but then what the point of you writing anything?
You pretty much wrote : “ Zione is in the gym. He's sweating and wearing black boxing gloves. They are old.”
You gave GREAT inseight to zione but nothing for his surrounds. Flush that out.
CD: I hope you have a game plan because once diamond heart losses, he's done. You're in the corner where IF he losses he losses credibility. Your choice for wnting to do that but there are ways of doing it so that when you lose, you dont suffer greatly for it. You had a good attempt at a small backstory but none of it played out.
You pretty much said: “ I was great in school. I hated school. I left. I went to boxing. I didnt know boxing. Now I know boxing.”
In 5 years, I'd hope so. I'm also ignoring the prodigy in 5 years despite weight classes and age and ability, I'll give you the benefit on that. So I hope in this CD, you can extend what your doing so that you can continue forward with a refreshing face character.
Shoot: Man, why cant people shoot in the Dub? Why does an All Father have to eat bread on bread when he reads? Write, say, DO something! If you dont know your opponent, use the bio. If you don't use that, down play your oponents. You started to, you did ok. Just ok. I would have liked to have seen more since you have more opponents. You could have talked about the match and your skills and really sunk into it. Rather you just skimmed.
Flow: This will sink you faster than anything. Those line breaks suck. All it does it make your RP look bigger than it is and then the reader realizes you just padded out the piece to make up for lack of content. I would stay away from the double line breaks.
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Post by Jay Omega on Apr 8, 2015 0:25:20 GMT -5
Another thick review from Big Alldaddy Cool. And if any of this seems harsh, Zione, take heart. Odin don't pull his punches, but everything said here was done with the intent of helping you improve.
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Post by Alex Richards on Apr 8, 2015 0:33:08 GMT -5
yeah, Odin's reviews are always on point. I know his reviews of my roleplays certainly helped me a lot.
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Post by Zione Redington on Apr 8, 2015 1:20:07 GMT -5
Haha I asked for the feedback, and I'm not going to complain about it. Looking back on it everything Odin said made sense, I'll definitely be looking to iron out all those problems the next time I come out.
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Post by Odin Balfore on Apr 8, 2015 1:37:47 GMT -5
Thats my take as a reader. I read every.single.word. Dont worry too much. Debuts suck for everybody. Maybe i'll dig out my debut rp from forever ago.
geezzz
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Post by Crow McMorris on Apr 8, 2015 17:26:50 GMT -5
Haha I asked for the feedback, and I'm not going to complain about it. Looking back on it everything Odin said made sense, I'll definitely be looking to iron out all those problems the next time I come out. Thats the spirit, man! No one's aces from the start (unless you're ICE Beckman) Give it time, read some roleplays; I would suggest Odin's, Jonny Fly's, Orbit's, Omega's, Richards, Cairo (of course), Kaz, Jayson Price and Joey Flash; since I see elements of these guys in your character. Think about you're bio, who is this guy? And how does what he says and do pertain to the match he's booked in? You're gonna do fine man, just keep working at it!
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Post by Odin Balfore on Apr 8, 2015 19:52:14 GMT -5
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Post by Gemini Battle on Apr 8, 2015 19:59:05 GMT -5
Was that a stick figure lynching?
The birth of ice comics
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Post by Odin Balfore on Apr 8, 2015 20:01:18 GMT -5
That was a stick figure lynching drawn by a raccoon
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Post by Howard Black on Apr 10, 2015 11:38:06 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of the line breaks between scent ended either, but I suppose that's preference. If I have one criticism, it's how you see Zione as a face. He doesn't strike me as a face at all; he's an unmotivated, arrogant golden boy who reeks of an entitlement complex. This isn't bad, per say, it just doesn't work as a face. But it works incredibly well for heels. In fact, while a loss could sever Zione's credibility, that may do more good than harm. An entitled prodigious jerk who has failed for the first time in his life is a great jumping point to explore the psyche of the character. If you want to stay face, humble pie works, too. I think this is a very raw RP where you lack a clear vision for the character, but you've inadvertently created some potentially incredibly compelling routes to take. Beyond that, my only criticism is grammar and word choice, but I'm an abject grammar facist.
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Post by Zione Redington on Apr 11, 2015 17:02:39 GMT -5
Hey! Sorry for the late response, haven't been able to get around here all the much since I've had some stuff going on.
About the line breaks, you're right about it being a preference. Usually I do it to make it easier to read, since I know personally when I see a big block of text I'm usually turned away from reading it, most of the time I still end up reading, but y'know.
And about being a face, I didn't have a plan for him being an entire face, more a tweener with face qualities. I ended up scratching that plan, while I continued to write I ended up just finding it more natural to make him an "entitled prodigious jerk". With my next, I'll definitely be trying to add more depth to the character rather than having him just a bland, generic asshole, hopefully I'll do well in that haha.
Thanks for the input man! Appreciate it.
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Post by florianstark on Apr 12, 2015 18:22:16 GMT -5
Okay, I finally got round to reading it properly (as I wanted to address it in my own RP), and whilst it has been some years since I was actively RP'ing until recently, I will try to approach mine from a more literary angle if I am able, as I am more familiar with books and literary analysis than I am with wrestling roleplays at the moment.
So I think that the main problem going in to the RP here is focus. Where do you want your character to go, what do you want him to be, and how will he react to the world that you are going to create around him? These are pretty important early questions, and like Odin said, we do get a lot more about the wall, punching bag, and other objects, than we do about how Zione thinks. Of course, the setting of the 'punching bag' allows a direction in narrative with I think is quite important, especially for the establishment of a new character, but the focus was too much on the background, not enough on his hopes, dreams, thoughts, and feelings. Basically, show us, don't tell us. For example, when you discuss the sweat dripping off, you could get away with just one line where you say (This isnt necessarily better, but it is more direct...)
"His body glistened as his ferocious training routine pushed his pure determination to its limits"
Basically, you show us with language that he is sweating and he's giving it his all. I think an important lesson I have learned recently - and I don't always do it, simply because my writing style is quite verbose and lengthy - but you should cut words constantly, edit, proof, and cut words. Mark Twain is credited with the following quote that I find to be quite apt...
"Substitute 'damn' every time you're inclined to write 'very;' your editor will delete it and the writing will be just as it should be."
The point of which is that words that you can deem to be superflous should be cut! It is very hard to get rid of things that you write (and not always simple to have a proof-reader for your work), but generally the work is the better for being made concise and succinct.
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My next point would be regarding how believable your character is. I'm aware that wrestling RP's do deviate quite significantly from the realm of reality, but it still should be consistent if you want it to be good. You can be the best skier, boxer, wrestler, from wherever, but you're going to start running in to trouble if it feels like you've just thrown in "I'm the best!" for no reason other than to say you are the best. This career in boxing that Zione had doesn't seem to serve much point here for me, because your character seems to have this insatiable hunger that has not yet be satisfied. Of course, your direction is up to you, but it didn't seem to flow naturally with how successful he had been, and yet he felt the need to never stop, be relentless, and come to another sport without having actually reached the upper echelon of the boxing world.
I sometimes make a few notes as I re-read my RP's (less so this week as been crazy busy, but I did make a plan and an overview of some key attributes that my character has). These can be things like consistency, entertainment, and interest. We all want to write larger-than-life characters, to varying degrees, but for me, the internal consistency of the piece is crucial in getting over aspects of your character. Like Odin stated before, the school routine vs boxing routine thing was a bit of a plot-hole for me, because it didn't make sense internally for this guy to love routine in the gym every day, but hate routine in school because of it being every day. I was also irked by the 'prodigy' thing, but mostly because I find it too easy to write a super-awesome character that is just super-awesome at everything, it is much harder to write a believable character who is still kinda-awesome, without all those tags of 'genius' or 'best boxer ever'.
There was a lot of raw potential here, there really was, and I liked the actual promo about the match you did at the end of your RP and how you addressed people in the match - even though all of us are unknown commodities. You put people down, you gave me fuel for my RP to respond to (which is generally the point of banter/trash talking, if you paint your opponent in to a corner the story suffers (usually), whereas if you give them enough rope to pull on, it can make for good back and for). I would like to see more of an approach where you prove you are going to win rather than just laying the foundations for an assumption that you should win based on you telling us that you should. Put yourself over the other people, talk them down, get personal, but whatever you do make sure you are always staying on point.
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It has been a long day, so I hope I didn't ramble too much in there (ironyyy), and I hope that you can take something useful from this and use it to become better and better.
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