Lilith
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Post by Lilith on Aug 20, 2016 11:49:52 GMT -5
So as those of you know, I am a Dog Trainer and so because of this I've probably come across it more than most lol but back in the day (and not even that long ago, we're only talking a couple of years at most) any dog which wasn't a purebred would be classed as a mongrel and the pups would be sold for no more than say 50 bucks. Nowadays though (or at least here in the UK) there has been a massive burst of people breeding said mongrels (most of which in puppy mills) and theyre literally being sold for MORE than what the purebreds are. Example... Cocker Spaniel = $300. Poodle = $300. Cockerpoo (cross between the two with a stupid name) we're talking upwards and maybe even over 1k. Obviously with my training I understand how bad mass cross breeding can be so seeing this happening A LOT now and people just crossing everything and giving the dogs a stupid "designer" dog name is quite aggravating lol
So my question is... does this happen in the States to this level?
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Post by TheButcher on Aug 20, 2016 11:55:02 GMT -5
I haven't seen it here in my area. Purebred is still top dollar, and usually AKC certified. Whereas, mongrels/mutts are not expensive and do not have any weird names, unless they were bred by 2 purebreds (and probably not on purpose.)
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Post by jasoncash on Aug 20, 2016 11:57:39 GMT -5
Depends on what I is.
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Lilith
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Post by Lilith on Aug 20, 2016 12:04:00 GMT -5
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Post by Thomas Uriel Bates on Aug 20, 2016 12:09:24 GMT -5
Yup, happens all over the place. It's essentially creating a new breed of dog which they claim is a "better breed", or maybe just a "cuter" one.
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Post by jasoncash on Aug 20, 2016 12:12:45 GMT -5
But the dog looks cuter. I saw a chow Cho Siberian huskey mix that was awesome. I also had a chow chow black lab mix that looked like a bear. He was huge and I used to ride him |
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Lilith
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Post by Lilith on Aug 20, 2016 12:20:52 GMT -5
Yup, happens all over the place. It's essentially creating a new breed of dog which they claim is a "better breed", or maybe just a "cuter" one. Nope if anything it's WRECKING dogs not making them stronger. Originally true mongrels were said to be healthier and stronger than purebreds but nowadays you just get idiots who get themselves a shed and buy two different dogs and just breed and breed and breed and breed them and create all sorts of health issues from mass breeding them... poorly! Not to mention every single "hybrid breed" dog has been given to the owner at 7 weeks old which is wayyyyyy too young and creates issues and problems for the dogs |
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Post by Thomas Uriel Bates on Aug 20, 2016 12:23:40 GMT -5
Yup, happens all over the place. It's essentially creating a new breed of dog which they claim is a "better breed", or maybe just a "cuter" one. Nope if anything it's WRECKING dogs not making them stronger. Originally true mongrels were said to be healthier and stronger than purebreds but nowadays you just get idiots who get themselves a shed and buy two different dogs and just breed and breed and breed and breed them and create all sorts of health issues from mass breeding them... poorly! Not to mention every single "hybrid breed" dog has been given to the owner at 7 weeks old which is wayyyyyy too young and creates issues and problems for the dogs While this is true to an extent, we must also remember that all "dogs" are actually hybrid breeds, even the purebreds. The original "dogs" looked nothing like what we have now. |
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Lilith
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Post by Lilith on Aug 20, 2016 12:28:30 GMT -5
Nope if anything it's WRECKING dogs not making them stronger. Originally true mongrels were said to be healthier and stronger than purebreds but nowadays you just get idiots who get themselves a shed and buy two different dogs and just breed and breed and breed and breed them and create all sorts of health issues from mass breeding them... poorly! Not to mention every single "hybrid breed" dog has been given to the owner at 7 weeks old which is wayyyyyy too young and creates issues and problems for the dogs While this is true to an extent, we must also remember that all "dogs" are actually hybrid breeds, even the purebreds. The original "dogs" looked nothing like what we have now. That is very true  and you see how many issues THAT has caused. Everyone should just get Wolfie dogs like huskys and alaskan malamutes... problem solved lol |
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Post by Chief Tom-O-Hawk on Aug 20, 2016 12:32:25 GMT -5
here in America, you can adopt pure bred boxer pups at only 5 weeks old. And we have a mix breed here where the lineage is so messed up, they literally just nickname it Heinz 57' and intentionally continue this very specific line of bastard mix.
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Lilith
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Post by Lilith on Aug 20, 2016 12:35:34 GMT -5
here in America, you can adopt pure bred boxer pups at only 5 weeks old. And we have a mix breed here where the lineage is so messed up, they literally just nickname it Heinz 57' and intentionally continue this very specific line of bastard mix. 5 weeks old?!!!!! Smh that is so bad  at that age the pups are still learning basic things from their mother |
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Post by Salem Shepard on Aug 20, 2016 15:15:57 GMT -5
I agree with most of everything you said, Lilith. ...except the 7 week old part and them having problems down the road. Thats about the age I've gotten every dog I've owned. Two of my last three were around 9 weeks. I've never had any issues with any of my dogs. Ive always had Border Collies until recently because I admire the intelligence of the breed and I have the room to let him roam, 25 acres. My Border Collies have always had papers, pure bred and verified. My grandfather lives about 200miles away even more in the sticks; and him and his friends work and train Border Collies - Hes always found my Collies, so I've always have great pure bred dogs. But Casper, our last Collie was the biggest, most beautiful Collie I had ever seen. I was raised around those dogs and it always blew me away how big he was and how fucking massive his paws were. I trained him the basics, and then I let my grandfather work him with cows and he didnt want to give Casper back! lol They were all shocked how big he was and how smart he was. His parents were award winning cattle dogs and he carried that trait. After my grandfather gave him back, you could tell Casper to "go swimming" he would jump in the pond. Or "mow the yard" he would jump up on the seat of the riding mower. I have a pic of that, I'll have to find it and upload it. We would let him roam our 25acres during the day and put him in a cage at night. He got out of his pen the night of January 1st this year and my neighbor called me the next morning and told me he was about 100 yards up the road in the middle of the street. He was 9 years old. My youngest daughter loves animals more than she loves humans and that was HER dog. they connected. I still haven't had the heart to tell her what happened. I had stressed to her over Caspers entire life that if he ever got out of the yard, someone was going to keep him. Shes convinced thats what happened and hes living in a good place being fed - so Im not going to tell her any different, ..for now. Currently we have a 10 month old Great Pyrenees (he was 14 weeks old when we got him) - but this dog does not leave the yard even if I left the gate to our driveway open. Hes big, hes lazy and he digs holes the size of fucking craters. Its frustrating for me because Im used to Border Collies learning everything almost instantly and this dog requires patience. He would just rather hang out and chill on the front porch with the fan I I put out there. I feel bad for owning this cold weather breed of dog in Oklahoma where its soo fucking hot, but hey, their here - and hes got a good home with his own personal fan! lol We also have a little Havanese thats almost 3 years old; and he has really surprised me with his intelligence! I dont like animals in the house, but I finally gave in to the kids wishes after all these years. Hes a great little dog! But no dog will ever come close to Casper. Ever. He was special, he was the best dog we ever had and he loved my daughter just as much as she loved him! And he LOVED the snow!! haha  |
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Lilith
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Post by Lilith on Aug 20, 2016 15:35:08 GMT -5
I agree with most of everything you said, Lilith. ...except the 7 week old part and them having problems down the road. Thats about the age I've gotten every dog I've owned. Two of my last three were around 9 weeks. I've never had any issues with any of my dogs. Ive always had Border Collies until recently because I admire the intelligence of the breed and I have the room to let him roam, 25 acres. My Border Collies have always had papers, pure bred and verified. My grandfather lives about 200miles away even more in the sticks; and him and his friends work and train Border Collies - Hes always found my Collies, so I've always have great pure bred dogs. But Casper, our last Collie was the biggest, most beautiful Collie I had ever seen. I was raised around those dogs and it always blew me away how big he was and how fucking massive his paws were. I trained him the basics, and then I let my grandfather work him with cows and he didnt want to give Casper back! lol They were all shocked how big he was and how smart he was. His parents were award winning cattle dogs and he carried that trait. After my grandfather gave him back, you could tell Casper to "go swimming" he would jump in the pond. Or "mow the yard" he would jump up on the seat of the riding mower. I have a pic of that, I'll have to find it and upload it. We would let him roam our 25acres during the day and put him in a cage at night. He got out of his pen the night of January 1st this year and my neighbor called me the next morning and told me he was about 100 yards up the road in the middle of the street. He was 9 years old. My youngest daughter loves animals more than she loves humans and that was HER dog. they connected. I still haven't had the heart to tell her what happened. I had stressed to her over Caspers entire life that if he ever got out of the yard, someone was going to keep him. Shes convinced thats what happened and hes living in a good place being fed - so Im not going to tell her any different, ..for now. Currently we have a 10 month old Great Pyrenees (he was 14 weeks old when we got him) - but this dog does not leave the yard even if I left the gate to our driveway open. Hes big, hes lazy and he digs holes the size of fucking craters. Its frustrating for me because Im used to Border Collies learning everything almost instantly and this dog requires patience. He would just rather hang out and chill on the front porch with the fan I I put out there. I feel bad for owning this cold weather breed of dog in Oklahoma where its soo fucking hot, but hey, their here - and hes got a good home with his own personal fan! lol We also have a little Havanese thats almost 3 years old; and he has really surprised me with his intelligence! I dont like animals in the house, but I finally gave in to the kids wishes after all these years. Hes a great little dog! But no dog will ever come close to Casper. Ever. He was special, he was the best dog we ever had and he loved my daughter just as much as she loved him! And he LOVED the snow!! haha Taking a puppy away from its mother in the transitional stage (2-4 weeks) can create a number of problems for later life. Any time before 8 weeks even, can cause problems – so that a puppy is pre-disposed to become fearful of other dogs. Ideally the whole litter should be kept together until at least 8 weeks. fearfuldog Puppies removed from their mothers even at 6 weeks and certainly less, exhibit appetite and weight loss, increased distress, higher mortality rates and higher susceptibility to disease. Also, bite inhibition needs to be learnt from the siblings and the mother of the puppy and this can not happen if it is removed from the nest too early. Dogs will not learn that they can not play too rough when removed from mum and their siblings too soon and this is a serious issue that can arise from leaving the family group early. Puppies can also become too clingy to their new humans and have serious issues of separation anxiety when removed from their mothers during the transitional period. Overall it is the fearfulness created by early separation that can create problems such as not eating and not sleeping properly. One write up I found suggested that toy pups should actually stay with their mothers until 14-16 weeks of age because they mature slowly and will learn better skills staying as a family until this age. Having said this, we must also consider how taking a puppy away right in the middle of its “sensitive period for socialisation” can also cause issues and this is why it is essential that breeders start to understand the important role they have in bringing up the puppies. Breeders who understand the socialisation and critical periods can make the difference between a new owner having an amazing dog and one that is going to be difficult for them. It will also make the breeder much more successful and “desired” if they can send puppies into the world that make fabulous dogs. The problem is that often puppies leave breeders for their new homes at around 8 weeks – and this is right in the middle of the sensitive period for socialisation. It is suggested that sudden change of environment at 8 weeks may be particularly stressful for puppies and of course, if the new owner is less “aware” and understanding of a puppy’s requirements or does not fully understand certain training implications, and how to go about things, they may meet a few more challenges with their new dog. Far better to get understanding out there so that fewer dogs end up being rejected. Breeders can really help with this process, not just educating the puppies but the new and potential owners too. Looking for a good and responsible breeder is important but finding breeders who scrutinise potential homes is also of utmost importance and to be encouraged. Interestingly, the dogs I have experienced that were left with their mothers for 9 to 11 weeks were more balanced and easy going. The breeders were also those who made sure these puppies were exposed to various noises, objects, children and other new things also. It did not seem essential that these puppies needed to be with the “new owner” earlier, the more important thing seems to have been exposure to various humans and knowing humans are good to be with. The new owners were encouraged to visit often and bond/meet their puppies while they were still with their mothers and this also allowed for all the puppies to meet a variety of new people. Although the sample is very small, it is interesting to note and from the research that I did on the internet it appears that more and more people are suggesting, if it is possible, to leave a puppy with its mother and in the breeder’s environment until 12 weeks, it makes a big difference in developing a well balanced and non-aggressive dog. |
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Post by Sarah Twilight on Aug 20, 2016 15:37:54 GMT -5
It happens here. That's why the "Labradoodle" is a fucking game piece in the Monopoly "here and now" edition. *smh*
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Lilith
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Post by Lilith on Aug 20, 2016 15:42:05 GMT -5
It happens here. That's why the "Labradoodle" is a fucking game piece in the Monopoly "here and now" edition. *smh* Smh indeed lol that is so bad! |
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Post by jasoncash on Aug 20, 2016 15:45:30 GMT -5
I agree with most of everything you said, Lilith. ...except the 7 week old part and them having problems down the road. Thats about the age I've gotten every dog I've owned. Two of my last three were around 9 weeks. I've never had any issues with any of my dogs. Ive always had Border Collies until recently because I admire the intelligence of the breed and I have the room to let him roam, 25 acres. My Border Collies have always had papers, pure bred and verified. My grandfather lives about 200miles away even more in the sticks; and him and his friends work and train Border Collies - Hes always found my Collies, so I've always have great pure bred dogs. But Casper, our last Collie was the biggest, most beautiful Collie I had ever seen. I was raised around those dogs and it always blew me away how big he was and how fucking massive his paws were. I trained him the basics, and then I let my grandfather work him with cows and he didnt want to give Casper back! lol They were all shocked how big he was and how smart he was. His parents were award winning cattle dogs and he carried that trait. After my grandfather gave him back, you could tell Casper to "go swimming" he would jump in the pond. Or "mow the yard" he would jump up on the seat of the riding mower. I have a pic of that, I'll have to find it and upload it. We would let him roam our 25acres during the day and put him in a cage at night. He got out of his pen the night of January 1st this year and my neighbor called me the next morning and told me he was about 100 yards up the road in the middle of the street. He was 9 years old. My youngest daughter loves animals more than she loves humans and that was HER dog. they connected. I still haven't had the heart to tell her what happened. I had stressed to her over Caspers entire life that if he ever got out of the yard, someone was going to keep him. Shes convinced thats what happened and hes living in a good place being fed - so Im not going to tell her any different, ..for now. Currently we have a 10 month old Great Pyrenees (he was 14 weeks old when we got him) - but this dog does not leave the yard even if I left the gate to our driveway open. Hes big, hes lazy and he digs holes the size of fucking craters. Its frustrating for me because Im used to Border Collies learning everything almost instantly and this dog requires patience. He would just rather hang out and chill on the front porch with the fan I I put out there. I feel bad for owning this cold weather breed of dog in Oklahoma where its soo fucking hot, but hey, their here - and hes got a good home with his own personal fan! lol We also have a little Havanese thats almost 3 years old; and he has really surprised me with his intelligence! I dont like animals in the house, but I finally gave in to the kids wishes after all these years. Hes a great little dog! But no dog will ever come close to Casper. Ever. He was special, he was the best dog we ever had and he loved my daughter just as much as she loved him! And he LOVED the snow!! haha Peachy dig holes.....I hate her. My backyard looks like the movie holes. I hate her |
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Post by Sarah Twilight on Aug 20, 2016 15:45:48 GMT -5
Although the idea of crossing a Bulldog with a Shih tzu to get a Bullshit is pretty tempting.
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Post by TheButcher on Aug 20, 2016 23:29:01 GMT -5
While this is true to an extent, we must also remember that all "dogs" are actually hybrid breeds, even the purebreds. The original "dogs" looked nothing like what we have now. That is very true and you see how many issues THAT has caused. Everyone should just get Wolfie dogs like huskys and alaskan malamutes... problem solved lol I had a purebred Norwegian Elkhound and a Samoyed.. And, lost one to cancer and the other to hip issues (due to Samoyed's pure bloodline.) I also had a Chow Chow mix.. |
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Post by TheButcher on Aug 20, 2016 23:30:57 GMT -5
here in America, you can adopt pure bred boxer pups at only 5 weeks old. And we have a mix breed here where the lineage is so messed up, they literally just nickname it Heinz 57' and intentionally continue this very specific line of bastard mix. And, Heinz 57 came from where else? Here in Pittsburgh, PA... And live minutes from their company. |
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Lilith
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Post by Lilith on Aug 20, 2016 23:39:06 GMT -5
That is very true and you see how many issues THAT has caused. Everyone should just get Wolfie dogs like huskys and alaskan malamutes... problem solved lol I had a purebred Norwegian Elkhound and a Samoyed.. And, lost one to cancer and the other to hip issues (due to Samoyed's pure bloodline.) I also had a Chow Chow mix.. Certain large breeds are more prone to CHD than others and include the Newfoundland, Saint Bernard, Old English Sheepdog, Rottweiler, German Shepherd, Golden Retriever, Alaskan Malamute, Labrador Retriever, and Samoyed. Hip dysplasia also occurs less commonly in smaller breed dogs and cats. Other markers for CHD can include: A body that is longer than it is tall High BMI (body-to-mass) ratio Spayed or neutered Dogs less than one year old diagnosed with hip joint damage and microfractures of the hip socket Young to middle-aged dogs with pain and lameness linked to osteoarthritis Whether or not a dog develops CHD and DJD/osteoarthritis, and the severity of it, depends on both nature (a genetic component) and nurture (environment and nutrition). |
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and you see how many issues THAT has caused. Everyone should just get Wolfie dogs like huskys and alaskan malamutes... problem solved lol
at that age the pups are still learning basic things from their mother 
