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Post by Seth on May 27, 2016 23:25:34 GMT -5
Thoughts? Everyone has been talking about this match since it happened.
It's definitely one of the most impressive of the flippy shit matches I've ever seen. I know they've had matches elsewhere but this is the only one of theirs I've seen personally.
Some people have criticized it for being TOO flippy and choreographed - which, to me, is insane given how much we're expected to suspend disbelief watching pretty much any wrestling.
That said - I didn't really pick up much psychology or storytelling or anything beyond two dudes hitting each other with all they've got and going counter for counter. Which is okay, it's just a tournament match, but it lacks what propels a match from good to great. It can't touch the damn KUSHIDA/OReilly matches im always blabbing about for example. That said, there was no commentary so I easily could've missed some nuance.
ANYWAY, it's definitely a must-watch match if Vader is tweeting about it. Whatd you guys think?
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Post by Corey Black on May 28, 2016 12:08:32 GMT -5
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Post by Corey Black on May 28, 2016 13:54:23 GMT -5
I'm about half way through. Seems rehearsed to no end. Ospreay talks a lot. And I can hear them calling spots, specifically the "hold my tights" Will had to say twice because Ricochet didn't hear him.
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Post by Corey Black on May 28, 2016 14:03:37 GMT -5
Yeah I wasn't impressed too much and this is my wheelhouse. Average at best. Couldn't get invested.
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Post by Seth on May 28, 2016 16:43:52 GMT -5
I'm about half way through. Seems rehearsed to no end. Ospreay talks a lot. And I can hear them calling spots, specifically the "hold my tights" Will had to say twice because Ricochet didn't hear him. He really does talk a lot. "You motherfucker!" made me lol. I didn't hear spot calling but I didn't have my volume up too high or anything, doesn't surprise me though. I dont think it looked any more rehearsed than some of the sillier WWE stuff. If I can suspend my disbelief for the People's Elbow, Cobra, Worm, some of the Stunner sells, etc., I can suspend my disbelief for two fast young dudes giving it everything they've got. |
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Post by Corey Black on May 28, 2016 17:20:06 GMT -5
The superhero pose segment. The apron dvd right into a reverse Rana. They didn't look fluid is what I'm getting at. Like they went out there with spot ideas but no transitions.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2016 17:40:57 GMT -5
I bet Jim Cornette brings this up at some point
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Post by That Brad Kane Guy on May 28, 2016 18:50:42 GMT -5
If I want Dragon Gate I'd watch Dragon Gate as this was total Dragon Gate style of stuff.
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Post by Dean Wolf on May 31, 2016 16:23:56 GMT -5
With no context and the volume turned down, it was a lot of fun to watch.
In fact, I've liked a lot of wrestling that I've watched with no context. Most of the ROH shows I've been to in my life were watched without having any idea what was going on as far as feuds and angles. Shit, Kevin Steen and El Generico were my favorite wrestlers and I saw them wrestle once or twice a year before ROH was on HDNet. I remember watching a Tanahashi vs. Okada match and only knowing that they were in a feud. Other than that, I had no clue why they were feuding but it didn't matter. The match was great.
And of course, when I first started watching wrestling, I was six and had no knowledge of what happened in the WWF before the summer of 1991. It didn't matter. I fell in love with wrestling anyway.
It goes to show, if wrestling is good, it'll attract people. If it sucks, it will repel people.
Seems pretty simple to me.
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Post by Henry Spearman on Jun 10, 2016 19:28:44 GMT -5
I much prefer matches that look like fights as opposed to dances.
I like a good floppy match every now and then but I'm a much bigger fan of matches that have good build and story and look like a fight.
I'm suspending disbelief but only to a certain extent. I still want it to look like a fight in the end.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 21:57:12 GMT -5
I bet Jim Cornette brings this up at some point |
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Post by Seth on Jun 13, 2016 0:05:49 GMT -5
I much prefer matches that look like fights as opposed to dances. I like a good floppy match every now and then but I'm a much bigger fan of matches that have good build and story and look like a fight. I'm suspending disbelief but only to a certain extent. I still want it to look like a fight in the end. To be fair, this was a match that was part of a big tournament, so it wasn't going to be a "has a build and story" match per se. They did create a story throughout the match trying to one-up another and all. I get what you mean about wanting it to look like a fight, but my argument is that it ISN'T a fight, it is pro wrestling, and they're both athletic high fliers and they ended up wanting to one-up each other. I think realistically someone could suspend disbelief enough to say "okay, these are both guys really well versed in high flying and flippy type moves so they're going to reverse each other's stuff constantly since they're both the best at what they're doing." I dunno. That's an easy defensive for me to make but even as I was watching I did kinda feel the same way as you so I see both sides. |
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Post by Henry Spearman on Jun 13, 2016 5:54:19 GMT -5
I much prefer matches that look like fights as opposed to dances. I like a good floppy match every now and then but I'm a much bigger fan of matches that have good build and story and look like a fight. I'm suspending disbelief but only to a certain extent. I still want it to look like a fight in the end. To be fair, this was a match that was part of a big tournament, so it wasn't going to be a "has a build and story" match per se. They did create a story throughout the match trying to one-up another and all. I get what you mean about wanting it to look like a fight, but my argument is that it ISN'T a fight, it is pro wrestling. Thats the thing though for me, pro wrestling is supposed to look like a fight. Pro wrestling is built on three things 1.Story- There needs to be a reason the fight is happening. In this case it's a tourney 2. Build- I have to believe the two guys want to fight and I need to be convinced to actually care about who wins 3. Fight- I need to believe the fight is real. Yes I know it's not but it should look real enough to make me able to suspend disbelief. Bret Hart was awesome at this. Everything looked like it hurt. When you do to much floppy stuff it doesn't look like a its fight. It looks like a dance. What ends up happening is guys don't have enough time to sell being hurt because they're moving on to the next move to quickly. Theres no psychology in a match like that other than "I can flip better" |
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Post by Henry Spearman on Jun 13, 2016 5:56:16 GMT -5
The superhero pose segment. The apron dvd right into a reverse Rana. They didn't look fluid is what I'm getting at. Like they went out there with spot ideas but no transitions. Do you listen to Russo's podcast? I thought he was spot on when he talked about that. An apron DVD should hurt. Sell that it hurts. To just take it and then go right into a reverse Rana doesn't make sense |
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