Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 8:05:38 GMT -5
What are your opinions on what makes a great face or heel? What makes the same for factions?
Not calling anybody out, but I've heard plenty of talk about alignments, and how some are good at playing their alignments, and some who are not. This is especially true of the factions that are in the game as of right now. So what makes a good face and heel? I guess I'll start.
For Heels:
For me, when I played a heel, it was about getting attention, in the bad way, but not being too overt about it. Gonzo was a heel for over 10 years, and was very effective at getting attention due to his success in the ring. And to reinforce the fact he was a heel, he'd take a shot at the crowd every once in awhile. With groups, its not much different, but the ideal that everyone within the group should be similar. For Avant Garde, the stable I was in, our goal was to dominate our fed "with style". Ironically enough, we were not a "graceful" group, but instead, much more brutal than our name suggests (after all, what's both French AND brutal? Besides body odor?). And, of course, there's that whole "addressing the fans" bit, but that can be ignored somewhat in the case of the Heel, as most Heels don't care about the fans.
For Faces:
Acknowledgement of the crowd is pretty damn significant. If you're not doing it, they don't know when to cheer or jeer you. Its easy to do the right things, but rather difficult to convey your intentions in words, which separates the differences in Faces and Heels. Sure, a Face can talk tons of shit at a Heel and still retain his status, but there usually must be some sort of catalyst to get that pushed into place. In the case of Gonzo, I started bagging real hard on The Pack, who were not so much a Heel faction, but rather one that was perceived to be a group with bad (or selfish) intentions. Gonzo did not keep quiet about his feelings towards The Pack, and before long, most perception went to myself and my allies being the Faces, while The Pack became mostly a Heel faction. As Gonzo, I ripped into them with a fervor that rivaled even the most foul-mouthed of heels, but I also justified my position in front of the FANS...
I'm sure I missed a few things that I wouldn't mind talking about, but the day is also early. But for now, lets discuss what makes for good Faces and Heels...
|
|
|
|
Post by Thomas Uriel Bates on Apr 18, 2015 12:43:47 GMT -5
It is hard to determine what is a Face and what is a Heel today in wrestling. Not just efeds, but places like WWE and TNA, and others. It is the people's perspectives that have changed. What was once considered a heel move, the fans cheer for. What was once considered a face move, the fans boo.
|
|
|
|
Post by Odin Balfore on Apr 18, 2015 12:49:58 GMT -5
Well in your eyes WHO is a heel and Who is face? IK everyone will say " yah my guy is heel/face" but who do you feel is a face or heel and why? IK thats not your objective of this thread but who are the people you think of when you think heel or face? regardless if you feel they are doing a great or poor job. We can go back and forth on what we feel makes a heel or face but everyone is a splash of everything.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jay Omega on Apr 18, 2015 12:50:45 GMT -5
Enh, my character has three personalities, allowing me to shift back and forth through the alignments whenever I like. The Core Jay Omega is kind of an entitled dick, but still generally laid back. The Omega Man is a little off kilter, and used to be all about the fans. Haven't been staying on top of that, so he's having a break. Which leads into the Hardcore Maniac, who is heel through and through, and the personality in control of Jay's body at the moment.
|
|
|
|
Post by Odin Balfore on Apr 18, 2015 12:56:42 GMT -5
I feel my style is too goofey at times to have a dedicated heel. I do well with Buddy Roman and making him a very hateable or likeable. But hes a character of extremes. I also feel that ZMAC is a likeable character so he would be more face; at least in my eyes because hes an anti-hero.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jay Omega on Apr 18, 2015 13:02:41 GMT -5
While I am a Buddy Roman Guy, I've gotta say that I've never really seen ZMAC as a face. I mean, I could, if I were to look at him as an anti-hero like Venom, the Punisher, or Deadpool. But I probably never would have if you hadn't mentioned it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gemini Battle on Apr 18, 2015 13:04:12 GMT -5
Up until flash joined VK I thought he was face or at least becoming one.
Now he and the rest are def heel.
When I started I had a hard time seeing Beckman as a heel with his comics and being in a feud with Seth who ic is a heel.
Dune and Alex Richards are clearly faces.
Oblivion is clearly a heel
|
|
|
|
Post by Odin Balfore on Apr 18, 2015 13:06:02 GMT -5
To me though , ICE is face. Then Flash and ZMAC depending how you see them, could be face or heel
|
|
|
|
Post by Odin Balfore on Apr 18, 2015 13:08:02 GMT -5
While I am a Buddy Roman Guy, I've gotta say that I've never really seen ZMAC as a face. I mean, I could, if I were to look at him as an anti-hero like Venom, the Punisher, or Deadpool. But I probably never would have if you hadn't mentioned it. Question is: Can ZMAC be viewed as an anti-hero? Can you look at his character and see those qualities? Or is he just a villain? |
|
|
|
Post by Jay Omega on Apr 18, 2015 13:26:45 GMT -5
Question is: Can ZMAC be viewed as an anti-hero? Can you look at his character and see those qualities? Or is he just a villain? If I take a step back, and look at ZMAC from a viewpoint completely separate from anything to do with the mindset of Jay Omega, I see a guy who's unyieldingly loyal to his cause and his friends. A guy who doesn't take shit, and is willing to go to excessive lengths to stand up for what he feels is the right thing. Give or take a few personality quirks, I would say that ZMAC could very easily be seen as the hero of the underclass; people who get shit on all the time, and wish they could just murk a nigga. Which is a fair chunk of people, if I'm not mistaken. |
|
|
|
Post by Crow McMorris on Apr 18, 2015 13:45:15 GMT -5
While I am a Buddy Roman Guy, I've gotta say that I've never really seen ZMAC as a face. I mean, I could, if I were to look at him as an anti-hero like Venom, the Punisher, or Deadpool. But I probably never would have if you hadn't mentioned it. Question is: Can ZMAC be viewed as an anti-hero? Can you look at his character and see those qualities? Or is he just a villain? From a totally objective standpoint, ZMAC is a heel; and a very good one at that. But no way is he a man of the people underdog. He's a coked up maniac, the most loyal and unrepenting of Buddy's Roman's "Family". His shoot style is snarling and vicious. He's never done anything for anyone except himself. He's never complimented any of his opponents. He's never seen any of them as a challenge. A face needs to do that, a face has to put their opponents over. So that the face has a mountain to climb. To make them seem courageous. I always thought ZMAC would make a good tag partner for Logan if the kings ever disbanded. But as a face? Things would have to change. It could happen. But with him so entrenched with Buddy. It's gonna take some doing. |
|
|
|
Post by Alex Richards on Apr 18, 2015 13:52:26 GMT -5
To me though , ICE is face. Then Flash and ZMAC depending how you see them, could be face or heel
I agree with this. Ice is definitely a face. I think Flash is definitely a heel though. Z Mac could be seen as an anti hero face you certainly made some good points but he might not be because of his close association with Buddy Roman who is definitely a heel.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 13:56:37 GMT -5
While I am a Buddy Roman Guy, I've gotta say that I've never really seen ZMAC as a face. I mean, I could, if I were to look at him as an anti-hero like Venom, the Punisher, or Deadpool. But I probably never would have if you hadn't mentioned it. I have to say I belonged to this camp. Perhaps as a solo act, Z-MAC would come across more as an anti-hero than an outright villain. However, the associations of the characters do alter my opinions, since the Vapor Kings are ran by Buddy Roman, who's obviously heel. Without Buddy Roman, I could see the Vapor Kings becoming a face faction, considering how easily ICE connects with the fans and the silly nature of Joey Flash. The association game is also part of the reason why I don't embrace some groups as a face or heel faction. Never mind the mannerisms of those associated with the Poondock Saints, but the membership of the group, with Odin the Super-Heel Allfather in the mix, really throws their alignment IMO. And as someone pointed out, its difficult to figure out who the good guys and the bad guys are these days. No clear indication of black or white. Hell, with Gonzo, I try to walk the fine line of keeping him straight(ish) and reverting back to his "old days". I also try to stick to the template of the Byronic Hero for him, as well. Yet somehow, Gonzo is considered a full-fledged face. Probably has to do more with who he's face(d), rather than the presentation of the character. Go figure... |
|
|
|
Post by Odin Balfore on Apr 18, 2015 14:12:28 GMT -5
Those are all very good points. I'll have to change Odins perception though because I want him to be a face and not a heel. IK that outting with scarecrow he went heel but that not what I want for the character.
|
|
|
|
Post by Joey Flash on Apr 18, 2015 14:18:41 GMT -5
It depends how hard you want to go in a certain direction for me, too extreme a heel can become very bland and tiresome for others in the federation and cause extreme alienation. However a well written, reasoned, intelligent heel can be an amazing character that storylines spew from.
The work Grime is doing is a tad too extreme at the moment, but if he reigned it in would show character weakness so just has to roll with it. A tough road!
I'll try to give a solid heel clinic over the coming weeks/months and show said stuff in action.
At least my recent face-isms have been recognised to the point people were questioning shit, even now. Good shit.
Characters who are actually faces: Dune, Fenix (though he thinks hes a heel), Marc Mayhem (ditto), Occulo, Gonzo, ICE, Chelsea, TUB, Caraid, Florian Stark, Howard Black, Zione Redington.
Characters who are actually heels: Myself, ZMAC, Grime, Oblivion, Logan, Kathy P, Adam Young, Reginald Dampshaw.
Everyone else is a nice shade of grey!
|
|
|
|
Post by Crow McMorris on Apr 18, 2015 14:21:02 GMT -5
How to turn ZMAC face...
1. The martyr to the cause: basically ZMAC and Buddy have a run in over Mac getting a world title shot. Buddy says Mac's there to watch ICE's back. To take the R-CAIRO. And thats it. ZMAC gets pissed off, Buddy senses dissension, Flash administers a beatdown on ZMAC after one of Mac's one on one matches, and assumes his place as the tag partner of ICE. ZMAC and White Steven watch on as Flash basically steals his spot. ZMAC goes to Buddy and asks what he has to do to get his spot back. Buddy says his time has come and gone. He's a king, "in name only", Flash and Ice will carry the show from on. We see ZMAC trying to put things right by interjecting in world title matches, tag matches, but it goes wrong. ZMAC and steven have a heart to heart. Mac realises that the problem he has, is the vapour kings. He turns on the faction and goes it alone; deciding that he isn't going to kill any more prostitutes, and find some meaning to his life.
We have a series of funny promos as ZMAC tries to fit in with "normal society" but it always turns into a bloodbath.
2.The frame up: This is basically Flash framing ZMAC as a vapour traitor; planting evidence that suggests that ZMAC is talking with the poondocks about strategy. ZMAC refutes this, and sets out to discover the truth and clear his name. A mock court segment shows the evidence, it looks irrefutable, until ZMAC discovers that Flash has been dressing up as ZMAC and sending Kaz and Cairo emails using the coked up madman's account. ZMAC reveals the truth, but Buddy (in his twisted way) sees what Flash has done as a sign that he is ambitious and promotes him as ICE's tag partner. This now follows the same path as the martyr storyline.
Basically; there needs to be some kind of catalyst for the audience to buy into a face ZMAC. He needs to go through some kind of injustice to get the crowd on his side.
|
|
|
|
Post by Odin Balfore on Apr 18, 2015 14:33:36 GMT -5
Those are god ideas
|
|
|
|
Post by Grime on Apr 18, 2015 14:51:42 GMT -5
It depends how hard you want to go in a certain direction for me, too extreme a heel can become very bland and tiresome for others in the federation and cause extreme alienation. However a well written, reasoned, intelligent heel can be an amazing character that storylines spew from. The work Grime is doing is a tad too extreme at the moment, but if he reigned it in would show character weakness so just has to roll with it. A tough road!
That's funny you just said that. But, ATM Grime is still a younger guy. I've used the fact of getting a title so quick going to his head. Hence the reason why I write IC posts and RPs as him thinking he's invincible, blaming Marc Mayhem for the loss IC. Good thing the mentor is still around to have a talk with him. But the direction obviously will have a interesting direction after Slam.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 14:59:55 GMT -5
The "extreme" label on Grime works for right now, considering his undefeated streak. However, once Grime receives his first loss, well, I'm curious as to what direction he's going to go after that. But this angle is based off of success, rather than organic storytelling, kind of what Torture did here once upon a time, if I read the history correctly.
Either way, Grime has lots of material to work with, so I'm not concerned, just as long as I gets me a good story to read...
|
|
|
|
Post by Grime on Apr 18, 2015 15:00:49 GMT -5
I do have one question. Maddox is my other character, and obviously I am barely getting my second match with him. But, what do people think of Maddox? No there hasn't been much, except being used in Grime RPs. But at the start what do people see him as?
Face/Heel? Strange? Funny? Just awkward? etc. |
|
