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Post by Odin Balfore on Jul 2, 2016 22:03:07 GMT -5
Steve Orbit ‘s thoughts and advice on effort, losing and putting things into perspective
So, this is a tough part of e-fedding for some people, maybe for everyone, I'm not sure.
For me, when I first started to really get into e-fedding (when I joined WCF last year), I thought I was getting screwed every time I lost. I thought there was an established group of guys here who never lost, especially to a new guy like me. Just being honest, that's how I felt.
Then I hung around for a while, and I realized that the established guys ranged from really good to freaking incredible writers. I had to take a step back and realize that I'm here with people who are really good at this, and that made me love this place even more.
A few things I've come to understand--
I'm always gonna think my RP is better. Always. No matter what. I am proud of my work, I take it seriously and personally, so I'm always gonna think I should win. However, that's not always the case. That's why we have a person who judges and I've found that he does an excellent job of judging fairly. I've brushed off many, many losses, but there have been a few that I've had a real issue with-- and each time, I talked to Seth about it, and he gave me an honest explanation. It made me feel better and it made me understand how I can become a better writer, and it DROVE me to want to become a better writer.
EVERYONE wants to win. That's why we're here. So when I say to myself, wtf, I spent all these hours and energy writing my RP and I lost? Well, my opponent did too. My opponent wanted to win just as much as I did. There's no "deserving" around here, there's no entitlements or hand outs. There's unbiased RP judging, period. That's what makes WCF special, and it's what makes Seth freaking awesome at his job as the fed head.
It can't be about winning or losing. That can't be what drives you to do this. It has to be about the passion behind your writing, and wanting to be a part of this community. When I do that, I have an awesome experience here. When I focus on my wins or losses, I'm being selfish and I'm not having fun. It's hard sometimes, and I definitely get emotional at times (I'm human), but I really try to focus on the storyline. If I take a tough loss, I try to work it into my character and build on it. I try to use it as fuel, and I noticed that my toughest losses were exactly what I needed at that time, a kick in the ass if you want to say it like that.
In real wrestling, nobody is undefeated. It's no different here. There's a few people who's losses are few and far between, but they are the hardest working people here hands down, writing mind blowing stuff for every single win. That's just the way it is in WCF if you really take a step back and look at the entire fed as a story.
I'd love for others to share their thoughts on how they deal with losing or if it bothers them or not.
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Post by TheButcher on Jul 2, 2016 22:16:26 GMT -5
Actually, you hit the nail on the head for me, except for first part. Since I started e-fedding 20 years ago, and then took a 15 year hiatus, until just weeks ago coming into WCF, I echo the same thoughts.
It's win AND losses that makes you see your strengths/weaknesses, but also, the other guy is doing the same thing. My thought is: Bring the best out of each other, each week, each match, etc. That's how you develop good OOC friendships that can help you, and also see the other guy's in-character RP, format, etc.
So, don't tally your win/loss ratio, but rather say: How can I do better this week? What can I change or possibly build-on this week?
Don't go in with a chip on your shoulder, and say..I'm going to just say nasty shit on so-and-so, and that will win me the match! Actually, it will do the complete opposite! Be creative, tell your story while you are including your current week's match. But, treat it as chess. Always think ahead of what possibilities you can make for your character, and also, working with other characters for teaming-up, feuds, rivalries, etc.
One thing I've learned before, read, I mean REALLY read, the successful veteran's RPs and use that as a constructive base for your own success, and then develop your own style. Your personality coming through an RP can really make a difference in your writing style, and for the good!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 22:21:53 GMT -5
Well put sir,
For me, as it pertains to writing, there's always more growth to be had from a defeat than when the Gods convene in our favor. My small sample size here isn't a tell-all about me, and this character is stll fresh. Winning has a simple truth: the next roleplay is a lot easier after a W. Losing takes a bit of courage and exceptional fortitude. And as you said, there's a need to dig in--double your efforts for the next show. Also, we touched on the best response to a loss: If it baffles you, kindly request why. Then take the pill lump into next week. Great stories are a mixture of push-n-pull mixed with a dollup of suffering. When you get knocked down, kip-up pal. Nothing feels better than resurgence--I can guarantee that. There's my two cents.
-LP
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Post by Oath Breaker on Jul 2, 2016 23:18:32 GMT -5
Format and style are a very loose base for me. Emotions and ideas reflect onto my format. Though some of my best comes out in poetry, which in itself is not common form for me.
I write when inspired. I don't force a post. I let it come natural. When deadline approaches, and I still have nothing up, I'll skim other peoples posts until something triggers the right idea.
There is no set format for success in posting except to say stay focused on your match first, developmental comes second. Use your wins, losses, storylines as fuel to amplify your posts.
And always have fun. Nobody will feel their post is good enough, even at times when they feel it's the best one of the week. THAT is what makes good writers. You will always improve simply because we always feel its not good enough.
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Post by Stuart Slane on Jul 3, 2016 6:27:13 GMT -5
Couple of points on this topic.
1. If your character's gimmick essentially boils down to "he never loses", you're likely setting yourself up for disappointment here in WCF.
2. If you're taking part in an angle or feud where your guy absolutely has to win or he looks like an utter chump, be prepared to deal with the consequences of losing. This is especially true for faces; we're conditioned as readers I think to see justice done at the climax of a story (which in wrestling is the match) and that the good guy is going to pull out the victory over the dastardly heel. That doesn't always happen in a genre where the outcomes are merit based.
3. It's a bad idea to try and settle real life grudges using wrestlers as proxies, but if you're going to, again, be prepared to face the music if things don't go your way.
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Post by Oblivion on Jul 3, 2016 13:35:46 GMT -5
Its a tough gimmick around here. People bust their asses. People will get offended and have their feelings get stepped on. Their have been publicly documented times where certain people should of won against other people just based only on rps. But, bitching and complaining will not change anything. It will look like different things to different people.
But... Yes, there have been times where some people, back in the day, should of been of defeated by other people but weren't, for various reasons.
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Post by Steve Orbit on Jul 7, 2016 19:00:47 GMT -5
Thanks for the repost Odin. This is important stuff and it's good for the feds well being to have an open conversation about it IMO.
Just to add something, winning is great but if you are putting in the effort, people notice and you will get opportunities. You build a reputation based on your work, regardless of win loss record. Just like in "real" wrestling, you can have a great, respected, revered character even if you never win a belt or if you lose big matches all the time. It's tough to appreciate while you are in the middle of it, and losses sting, but this is a story that never ends. It's all about what you're doing next week or at the next PPV-- if you look at it like that, wins and losses are a necessary part of the story but you can have a great character and "get over" whether you win or lose.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 18:04:09 GMT -5
I just discovered this board! Anyway, my thoughts are, I've been intrigued by the storyline ever since I found out wrestling was scripted. That being said, I love the blurred lines aspect like CM Punks Pipe bomb movement. The folks here overall seem to get it, that to gain the ultimate entertainment value, sometimes you gotta lose. I understand that.
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Post by TheButcher on Jul 21, 2016 18:10:30 GMT -5
I just discovered this board! Anyway, my thoughts are, I've been intrigued by the storyline ever since I found out wrestling was scripted. That being said, I love the blurred lines aspect like CM Punks Pipe bomb movement. The folks here overall seem to get it, that to gain the ultimate entertainment value, sometimes you gotta lose. I understand that. Exactly! Or, even a DQ or Countout, etc. It's just the working together aspect that adds the best entertainment product for everyone! Not using the 'Hogan clause,' where you don't put anyone over.. That's bush league. You know what you're doing, bro! |
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Post by Doc Henry on Jul 25, 2016 16:04:47 GMT -5
I just discovered this board! Anyway, my thoughts are, I've been intrigued by the storyline ever since I found out wrestling was scripted. That being said, I love the blurred lines aspect like CM Punks Pipe bomb movement. The folks here overall seem to get it, that to gain the ultimate entertainment value, sometimes you gotta lose. I understand that. Exactly! Or, even a DQ or Countout, etc. It's just the working together aspect that adds the best entertainment product for everyone! Not using the 'Hogan clause,' where you don't put anyone over.. That's bush league. You know what you're doing, bro! Hogan stole that from Torture... |
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Post by Logan on Aug 16, 2016 3:38:24 GMT -5
JUST GOT OVER THE LOSS TO OBLIVION. THREE MONTHS AND THREE WORLD CHAMPIONS LATER.
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Post by Seth on Aug 29, 2016 23:32:00 GMT -5
JUST GOT OVER THE LOSS TO OBLIVION. THREE MONTHS AND THREE WORLD CHAMPIONS LATER. I don't think he's over it. |
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Post by Dionysus on Oct 10, 2016 8:48:02 GMT -5
So this seems to be about dealing with one loss.
How does one deal with multiple losses?
In a row?
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Post by Wade Moor on Oct 10, 2016 17:34:28 GMT -5
So this seems to be about dealing with one loss. How does one deal with multiple losses? In a row? I would say don't let the losses get to you brother. Instead of looking on them as a negative, look at them as a positive and try to turn it into a learning experience. Ask people for feedback. Ask Seth for feedback. The best thing you can do for your character is to respond heavily to what's working and weed out anything that may not be resonating with the readers. When people give you constructive feedback, don't look for "lip service", listen only to the negative feedback and work on improving in those areas as well. Trust me, when I first started here, I went through a string of damning losses. I thought maybe I wasn't "good enough" at first, but every week I kept my nose to the grindstone, applied myself, and eventually ended up winning the World Championship. It takes time and hard work, but when you see it pay off, there's nothing like that feeling of achievement. It's empowering bro. |
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Post by Gemini Battle on Oct 10, 2016 19:57:14 GMT -5
I ran a futile exercise logging my wins and losses. In 2 and a half years I had like 5 singles wins where my opponents rped. That comes with of course a tremendous runs as trios champ which I didn't count.
It's horribly discouraging but it's ateatament to the talent here. The loudest sounds are people like flash and fly and orbit and Odin who came in and had tremendous runs.
The quieter runs are ones like the story of Wade moor (OOC) who struggled to find his way and finally found a character he could connect with. I think those are the more meaningful ones.
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Post by "Hardcore Redneck" John Thomas on Jan 15, 2017 20:18:00 GMT -5
Everyone on here brings up good points.. I know early in my e-fedding career (some 12 years ago or so) I got so pissed about losing, and almost thought about quitting a few times.. then as I got more experienced I started using it to motivate me to try to build on what works for me with my rps..
Hell in EHWF which is the fed I had my most success in I used the fact that this character never won their world title despite coming close on multiple occasions to not only motivate me as a writer.
Also learned to use multiple losses for both characters as motivation in their development in character as having the characters questioning if they had what it takes to compete in the "big leagues".
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Post by David Sanchez on Jan 31, 2017 12:51:33 GMT -5
Where's the section for when you drop the longest RP ever written then shit the bed within the same 6 weeks. Undoing everything you've done? I've been on my way out for a good few months now, for those who didn't know I'm expecting kid #2 in 15 days. Frank's a great writer, so I'm not pissed about the loss or losing to him of all people. Just disheartened by the loss coming so close to my time off, was hoping to re-appear with the FD case later in the year once the baby's less maintenance and do some stories we've been planning for a while. As usual though... Boom! Headshot! Pun intended. Plans entirely fucked and back to square one. The joys of make-believe.  Not the first time I've felt like this, wont be the last either. Losses suck, that's the long and short of it. After doing this for fifteen years, it still stings. |
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Post by Stuart Slane on Jan 31, 2017 14:18:51 GMT -5
Where's the section for when you drop the longest RP ever written then shit the bed within the same 6 weeks. Undoing everything you've done? I've been on my way out for a good few months now, for those who didn't know I'm expecting kid #2 in 15 days. Frank's a great writer, so I'm not pissed about the loss or losing to him of all people. Just disheartened by the loss coming so close to my time off, was hoping to re-appear with the FD case later in the year once the baby's less maintenance and do some stories we've been planning for a while. As usual though... Boom! Headshot! Pun intended. Plans entirely fucked and back to square one. The joys of make-believe. Not the first time I've felt like this, wont be the last either. Losses suck, that's the long and short of it. After doing this for fifteen years, it still stings.[/quoteg] Sorry things didn't exactly work out for you storyline wise. And congratulations on the upcoming addition to your family. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 15:26:02 GMT -5
Where's the section for when you drop the longest RP ever written then shit the bed within the same 6 weeks. Undoing everything you've done? I've been on my way out for a good few months now, for those who didn't know I'm expecting kid #2 in 15 days. Frank's a great writer, so I'm not pissed about the loss or losing to him of all people. Just disheartened by the loss coming so close to my time off, was hoping to re-appear with the FD case later in the year once the baby's less maintenance and do some stories we've been planning for a while. As usual though... Boom! Headshot! Pun intended. Plans entirely fucked and back to square one. The joys of make-believe. Not the first time I've felt like this, wont be the last either. Losses suck, that's the long and short of it. After doing this for fifteen years, it still stings. First of all, I hate it that you lost like that in such a big match, but here's the thing: If I took everyone in the fed and ranked them based on who could bounce back from a big loss and come out better than before, you would be top 3 on my list. You've had that slow rise in the fed, but that's mainly due to outside factors. If not for those outside factors, which primarily were out of your control, you would have been at least a 1 time world champion already. You should turn this negative into a positive. When you decide you're about ready to return, I would contact FPV and see if he wants to do a feud over him winning this match. A feud with him would be badass. Plus I'm sure win or lose in that feud, Seth would probably have no issue with putting you in a world title match around that time. You, of all people, are definitely deserving of a world title shot. Cashing in the FD briefcase and beating Flash (assuming you did) would be great for your story, but losing that briefcase, and then returning to take on the man that derailed your rise to the top, before finally climbing to that WCF summit as eventual world champion is so David Sanchez. |
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Post by David Sanchez on Jan 31, 2017 15:38:43 GMT -5
Cheers guys. I'm not actually taking time off. I was just saying I'm bummed the fuck out lol. That would be sweet, but like I said I'm going to be going to a much lighter booking schedule soon anyway, so I've probably got like 3 or 4 weeks to get on top of shit again before my daughter gets here and trying to write through the loss, when I've got CD stock-piled for days that is now pretty fuccin' irrelevant - is pressure I could have done without lol. At the end of the day, I can't bitch. Franky's RP was better than mine. I'm sure we'll get to work together again at some point  Just wanted the newbs to know that even Sanchez gets the blues >_> Thanks for the well-wishes for Esme' as well Slane. |
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