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Post by Logan on May 8, 2016 19:27:43 GMT -5
Pretty SURE Seth covered all of this in the previous thread.
This was supposed to be 'Ask Seth a question and he will answer' type of thread rather than a 'lets argue over things already argued so Slam can be delayed' type of thread.
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Post by Joey Flash on May 8, 2016 19:28:41 GMT -5
Thirded. And let's make it a general rule that if a mod gets a complaint about an unwanted dick pic from another member, that's a bannable offense. Lilith and Logan wanna make nice about it now, fine. But that's the second time someone came to us talking about Logan pulling that shit and the first person still is pissed about it. And no, drunkenly assuming that a girl automatically wants to see your cock isn't a defense. It's a bigger conversation than that. I'll agree on a personal stance - Logan is fucked for all of that!, sorry Logan, but dick pics aren't cool in any scenario. That said, I've been criticized for double standards and whatever - who DID I ban or something for OOC stuff done on Facebook, like people wanted Logan banned for? No one I can remember. If I've let Logan get away with too much, at the very least, there's no one I HAVEN'T let get away with stuff. I really don't like getting involved with conversations people have on Facebook. Or anywhere else that is meant to be private. If Joey Flash and Celeste got in a real life fight and Celeste and she was active and she came on here and said "Joey Flash said horrible things about me, ban him!", well shit!, he did something in REAL LIFE!, even worse than the internet. But it was a private conversation between two adults. Why does any of it have to do with me or WCF? Same scenario for any two people that know each other in real life. Again, I absolutely do not condone what Logan did, but it wasn't about him. If Johnny Juice sent George Georgie a dick pic or anything unwanted on somewhere that wasn't WCF, I really wouldn't be excited to get involved. If it ever got that bad, I'd be more worried about my bleeding groin after the castration.
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Post by Seth on May 8, 2016 19:34:02 GMT -5
Old new member isn't urgent. It slipped by for a bit but I had it in the mod PM days ago waiting for a response before acting for the exact reason of me not knowing if anyone was informed. And it is a bit controversial all things considered. We need to tell people to fuck off out of here. There can't be any middle ground. None of this slap on the wrist stuff. It is like being a parent. Everyone knows theres a million hoops to jump through to punish anyone so fuck it. Dicks and drama and bullshit galore. Unfortunately I'm a dick who doesn't care about anyone's opinions for disagreeing with you. That isn't, and it has NEVER been, how I've run WCF, and I've never given any indication I'd want to change. The way I see things is that the mods are free to give out the slaps on the wrists, the spankings, and whatever - until it gets serious, like monthly bans, in which case I'd obviously like to be part of a conversation. Joey Flash made WCF not fun for a lot of people because of the podcasts for a period of time. What you're saying is, because he broke the rules and was disrespectful of people OOC, I should have told him to fuck off and banned him. Instead, he didn't get banned at all, stuff got addressed and as far as I know everyone involved is cool! Letting the mods issue low level bans for troublemakers but not issuing long-term bans without conversation is perfectly fair IMO. If anyone has a problem with the whole "several bans until a permaban in most cases" set up I have? I don't imagine me changing it. Again, I feel like my making a decision that the mods don't agree with is being met with "SEE YOU DONT LISTEN TO US" which is bullshit.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 19:36:35 GMT -5
I really don't like getting involved with conversations people have on Facebook. Or anywhere else that is meant to be private. I have so much more I'd love to respond to that you're explaining incorrectly from the admin perspective, but I just want to point out that we punish people on Facebook because you wanted to. The rest of the admins didn't want to do that.
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Post by Jayson Price on May 8, 2016 19:38:05 GMT -5
Thirded. And let's make it a general rule that if a mod gets a complaint about an unwanted dick pic from another member, that's a bannable offense. Lilith and Logan wanna make nice about it now, fine. But that's the second time someone came to us talking about Logan pulling that shit and the first person still is pissed about it. And no, drunkenly assuming that a girl automatically wants to see your cock isn't a defense. It's a bigger conversation than that. I'll agree on a personal stance - Logan is fucked for all of that!, sorry Logan, but dick pics aren't cool in any scenario. That said, I've been criticized for double standards and whatever - who DID I ban or something for OOC stuff done on Facebook, like people wanted Logan banned for? No one I can remember. If I've let Logan get away with too much, at the very least, there's no one I HAVEN'T let get away with stuff. I really don't like getting involved with conversations people have on Facebook. Or anywhere else that is meant to be private. If Joey Flash and Celeste got in a real life fight and Celeste and she was active and she came on here and said "Joey Flash said horrible things about me, ban him!", well shit!, he did something in REAL LIFE!, even worse than the internet. But it was a private conversation between two adults. Why does any of it have to do with me or WCF? Same scenario for any two people that know each other in real life. Again, I absolutely do not condone what Logan did, but it wasn't about him. If Johnny Juice sent George Georgie a dick pic or anything unwanted on somewhere that wasn't WCF, I really wouldn't be excited to get involved. See that's where you and I are going to strongly differ. I could give a fuck less about Logan and Lilith playing nice. I'm more concerned about the fact that's twice the same member has pulled this shit and we're not going to do jack shit about when he most certainly does it again. Sexual harassment isn't a fucking joke. Threatening to send a member dick pics and then doing it isn't a fucking joke. Telling a member that "she was asking for it" and calling them a "frigid bitch" and then saying "I'd show you right if I could" isn't a fucking joke. When a girl says she isn't interested in seeing your dick, she's not playing a fucking game. You can say all you want about wanting to stay out of personal shit that happens off the boards, but a member pulling that level of shit, shit that should have them on some registry somewhere but they aren't because the girl decided to pack up and leave rather than go that route, can't just be ignored. A boyfriend and girlfriend that have a fight off the boards, that's not the same damn thing and comparing the two is wrong.
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Post by Seth on May 8, 2016 19:39:34 GMT -5
Yeah that's not true at all. I felt that I was pretty clear on countless occasions for a very long time but I stuck it out for my friends on here and because I helped build this place. You also made it pretty clear how you felt about opposing opinions, disagreements, and shit like that in our PM thread with me, you, and two other admins, not a thread with all the other admins. You apparently forgot about that and we both got pretty heated with each other. I never outright came to you about it and said I was leaving, because you made it pretty clear you didn't give a fuck. I didn't make it public either because I didn't want to cause drama on the boards. EDIT: And my interpretation of what you said in that PM thread isn't mine alone. You're interpretation, by the way, about me not giving a fuck was 100% wrong. I've taken everyone that's left - you, ICE, Cairo, etc. - because of me incredibly personally. I don't talk to people about it, however. I don't really care if you want to dig up quotes of mine, but I'm just going to disagree with you on the whole "You also made it pretty clear how you felt about opposing opinions, disagreements, and shit like that in our PM thread with me, you, and two other admins, not a thread with all the other admins." thing, because it gives people not involved in the PM the idea that I was dismissive. I do not think that I was. I think that perhaps me disagreeing or not being open to compromise on whatever is the same as me not wanting to hear dissenting opinions. Disagreeing is not the same as dismissing.
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Post by Corey Black on May 8, 2016 19:40:44 GMT -5
We only had to tell Flash once, twice at most to tone it down. He isn't here to troll, he is here to have fun. It is easy to spot.
But no, you don't listen to us. We come to an agreement on something - literally all of us - and we are shot down. Stuff that immediately jumps out is the dick stuff and a couple recent returns. I get that you just want the best for everybody but that means dropping some bad apples along the way. More than we have anyway.
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Post by Seth on May 8, 2016 19:41:28 GMT -5
I really don't like getting involved with conversations people have on Facebook. Or anywhere else that is meant to be private. I have so much more I'd love to respond to that you're explaining incorrectly from the admin perspective, but I just want to point out that we punish people on Facebook because you wanted to. The rest of the admins didn't want to do that. My memory is hazy and I'm not trying to be a dick but I don't remember the different scenarios we came across. I could swear that the Waylon situation was the first, and the only other thing to have come up as Logan, but am I missing something? I'm positive the admin team was definitely pro banning Logan for Ana Valentine situation. As for Waylon, I actually thought the admins were pro-banning him there too, but again, I honestly could be remembering wrong.
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Post by Jay Omega on May 8, 2016 19:47:02 GMT -5
Joey Flash made WCF not fun for a lot of people because of the podcasts for a period of time. ... Instead, he didn't get banned at all, stuff got addressed and as far as I know everyone involved is cool! Enh, not quite. Took months of cajoling from Purse and Reb to get me back here, and the first podcast I listened to was more of the same old shit that had me fed up in the first place. That's one issue that's not going to get fixed any time soon.
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Post by Seth on May 8, 2016 19:47:12 GMT -5
We only had to tell Flash once, twice at most to tone it down. He isn't here to troll, he is here to have fun. It is easy to spot. But no, you don't listen to us. We come to an agreement on something - literally all of us - and we are shot down. Stuff that immediately jumps out is the dick stuff and a couple recent returns. I get that you just want the best for everybody but that means dropping some bad apples along the way. More than we have anyway. You're right. If our disagreements are going to be on "should someone stay or should they go" and I believe they should stay or get another chance... Okay! Everything is out in the open, I'm going to listen to you guys and consider what you say and go with what I decide. If it wasn't for the admins, maybe Sarah Twilight and Katherine Phoenix would be here as regular members and NOT under the "one strike and you're out" thing, which they are. So it isn't like you had no input - I just didn't go 100% in the direction you would have. But the mods influenced things overall. While things are out in the open, I also remember the disagreement about having Oblivion being stripped of admin powers. I decided I'd keep an eye on things - and spoke to Oblivion and told him things he posted weren't appropriate. I let him "get away" with it without any bans or anything.. was that favoritism?, or was I just showing him the same attitude I show everyone? Was I dismissing the mods concerns by not stripping him of his mod powers?, or was I taking their thoughts under advisement and watching the situation? These things aren't black and white.
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Post by Seth on May 8, 2016 19:49:58 GMT -5
Joey Flash made WCF not fun for a lot of people because of the podcasts for a period of time. ... Instead, he didn't get banned at all, stuff got addressed and as far as I know everyone involved is cool! Enh, not quite. Took months of cajoling from Purse and Reb to get me back here, and the first podcast I listened to was more of the same old shit that had me fed up in the first place. That's one issue that's not going to get fixed any time soon. Thank you for this. Not everything is as cut-and-dry, this-guy-is-a-good-guy-and-this-guy-is-a-bad-guy as would be preferred.
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Post by Teo Blaze on May 8, 2016 19:50:28 GMT -5
I have no grievance with WCF. Every once in a while I feel discouraged because my character has had a diminished role in the shows, but then I remember I've gotten to be involved in some pretty big matches/feuds and that I'm in the midst of a title reign that has been a blast.
The federation has given me all of that and frankly it would be selfish of me to demand more.
With that said, I am one of the lucky ones. I have interacted with people who have poured their heart and soul into pursuing a championship, or a storyline, and had it completely ignored and no avenue to realistically pursue it.
So I completely understand how it can be frustrating to see people jump the line, so to speak. I know this is unrealistic, but I've always wondered if a rankings ladder would work, with the caveat that you're only allowed to be on one ladder at a time. It really does feel like the title shots are random sometimes, and while that chaos is great fun to watch, it inevitably is going to leave people frustrated when they feel like they're being passed over with no clear way to express their desires for the future.
I'm not saying that everyone should get title shots by asking for them, I am saying that someone like Mikey Extreme or Spencer Adams should not be dropped into midcard hell the moment they don't win their big match either.
It genuinely feels sometimes like no one knows where they stand in the card. Wins and losses lead to somewhat sporadic booking. No one answer this, but I can't tell if I'm a midcarder, main eventer, or Damien Sandow lol. There's no clear way of knowing whether your work is being noticed and appreciated.
To repeat, I have no grievance, but I felt like reflecting some frustrations I've encountered since this is an open forum.
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Post by Crystal Knight on May 8, 2016 19:53:21 GMT -5
If it wasn't for the admins, maybe Sarah Twilight and Katherine Phoenix would be here as regular members and NOT under the "one strike and you're out" thing, which they are. So it isn't like you had no input - I just didn't go 100% in the direction you would have. But the mods influenced things overall. Just an FYI, I have known from the day I returned that I was under the "one strike" thing, and I am perfectly happy with that. Why? Because I don't intend on doing anything wrong, and hopefully... my continued presence will prove that I am not an asshole. I have been here going on 5 months now, and thus far all is good. Maybe one day people won't look at me and auto think "troublemaker". Lord knows I've already killed Katherine off and created a non-controversial babyface just to get away from the troll image I gave myself. I mean sure I mess around a fair bit on the ooc boards, playfully, but I never mean anything bad with it. And to mirror what Joey said earlier in this thread, if anyone has any issues with me, no matter what they are... feel free to contact me. Whether on here or on facebook.
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Post by Thomas Uriel Bates on May 8, 2016 19:54:32 GMT -5
Well, this is an interesting thing to come back to...
Yea, I had problems with some people before I left earlier, and my fellow DRG folks know about it. Things got personal, and it's looking like things are getting personal yet again around here. There are things to do to fix it, but everyone is going to have to take a step back and think about it first.
No, Logan shouldn't have posted the "dick pic", and a suspension is suitable.
The Moderators and Seth seem to have a communication break down. Pick up the phone and fix it. It might be hard, and everyone will have to make sacrifices, but get it done.
If too many people are really worried about favoritism, then set up a Board to vote on the winners, or just accept the fact that everyone is going to have favoritism for someone or something. It's not always on purpose.
Then get back to the game we call "efed" and roleplay, write matches, and do what we've all done since we got into this whatever-it-is.
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Post by Logan on May 8, 2016 19:55:46 GMT -5
I WAS banned for the Carly dick picture situation. I don't know how many times I have explained it over the last day but no one seems to listen.
Carly and I had been talking for months. Our chat one night got super flirty and intimate and then she ASKED for a picture of my dick. At the time Waylon and Carly were lobbying in chats to get me banned because of DoT ruining a main event I believe? I.don't know exactly why, but they were.
Not very long after the dick pic Waylon Cash started harassing me on FB and then once Jayson Price, YES PRICE, YOU, messaged me on FB with a no-no speech, I was BANNED that very night or that next morning. I realized it was some sketchy shit from Carly and the gang so I blocked her and Waylon.
End of story. I think my ban was lifted after a week. I really can't remember how long. But I was in fact banned.
The thing between Rod and I was a casual day in one of our daily conversations. We talk and say and do bizarre shit to one another but that's how our friendship works.
BTW. I posted a thread about this last night being polite and respectful as possible that already explained the dick pics, Torture, and everything else where I genuinely apologized to Torture and offered a resolve through PM's. That thread was deleted by a mod. Why? No one has yet to tell me.
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Post by SickWaves Blackamura on May 8, 2016 19:57:10 GMT -5
Joey Flash made WCF not fun for a lot of people because of the podcasts for a period of time. ... Instead, he didn't get banned at all, stuff got addressed and as far as I know everyone involved is cool! Enh, not quite. Took months of cajoling from Purse and Reb to get me back here, and the first podcast I listened to was more of the same old shit that had me fed up in the first place. That's one issue that's not going to get fixed any time soon. People were misunderstanding each other and building up mutual salt on both sides. I chalk it up to a breakdown in communication. I've been a dick about some shit, but I'll gladly try to help you with any communication building.
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Post by Corey Black on May 8, 2016 19:59:31 GMT -5
We only had to tell Flash once, twice at most to tone it down. He isn't here to troll, he is here to have fun. It is easy to spot. But no, you don't listen to us. We come to an agreement on something - literally all of us - and we are shot down. Stuff that immediately jumps out is the dick stuff and a couple recent returns. I get that you just want the best for everybody but that means dropping some bad apples along the way. More than we have anyway. You're right. If our disagreements are going to be on "should someone stay or should they go" and I believe they should stay or get another chance... Okay! Everything is out in the open, I'm going to listen to you guys and consider what you say and go with what I decide. If it wasn't for the admins, maybe Sarah Twilight and Katherine Phoenix would be here as regular members and NOT under the "one strike and you're out" thing, which they are. So it isn't like you had no input - I just didn't go 100% in the direction you would have. But the mods influenced things overall. While things are out in the open, I also remember the disagreement about having Oblivion being stripped of admin powers. I decided I'd keep an eye on things - and spoke to Oblivion and told him things he posted weren't appropriate. I let him "get away" with it without any bans or anything.. was that favoritism?, or was I just showing him the same attitude I show everyone? Was I dismissing the mods concerns by not stripping him of his mod powers?, or was I taking their thoughts under advisement and watching the situation? These things aren't black and white. Oblivion isn't here to troll either though. That's kind of what I'm trying to get at. The mod team, well most of us, are here day in and day out, mingling and keeping an eye on stuff. We know the beat. We hear what's going on. The mod team here was me, Price, GD, Odin and Gable. Everybody else with mod powers either aren't around enough, busy with other things or not even here anymore, really. That has been effectively cut down to me and Odin. Everybody else, clearly, thinks there's an issue and they're out or on their way out in one way or another. I've always been perfectly fine with you making the decisions. I don't agree with a lot of them, but you've been the guy to decide shit for over half my life now so I'm used to it. These other guys, they didn't grow up with WCF. They're not going to just take it for the sake of it. The one other dude we had on the mod team like me has told this place to shove it. You have to see the writing on the wall man. You've got to let the grip loose somewhere.
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Post by Seth on May 8, 2016 20:00:00 GMT -5
I have no grievance with WCF. Every once in a while I feel discouraged because my character has had a diminished role in the shows, but then I remember I've gotten to be involved in some pretty big matches/feuds and that I'm in the midst of a title reign that has been a blast. The federation has given me all of that and frankly it would be selfish of me to demand more. With that said, I am one of the lucky ones. I have interacted with people who have poured their heart and soul into pursuing a championship, or a storyline, and had it completely ignored and no avenue to realistically pursue it. So I completely understand how it can be frustrating to see people jump the line, so to speak. I know this is unrealistic, but I've always wondered if a rankings ladder would work, with the caveat that you're only allowed to be on one ladder at a time. It really does feel like the title shots are random sometimes, and while that chaos is great fun to watch, it inevitably is going to leave people frustrated when they feel like they're being passed over with no clear way to express their desires for the future. I'm not saying that everyone should get title shots by asking for them, I am saying that someone like Mikey Extreme or Spencer Adams should not be dropped into midcard hell the moment they don't win their big match either. It genuinely feels sometimes like no one knows where they stand in the card. Wins and losses lead to somewhat sporadic booking. No one answer this, but I can't tell if I'm a midcarder, main eventer, or Damien Sandow lol. There's no clear way of knowing whether your work is being noticed and appreciated. To repeat, I have no grievance, but I felt like reflecting some frustrations I've encountered since this is an open forum. This is fair! I could very easily rank everyone on a ladder, and I can see how the way I book might confuse people if they're not sure where they stand exactly. I was about to type more but I think this kind of thing is better served for its own post really. The long and short of it is that unfortunately we have a TON of people that are probably equally as good, and it could seem that when everyone is main event worthy, that none of them are main event worthy - it would depend on perception.
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Post by SickWaves Blackamura on May 8, 2016 20:00:56 GMT -5
Well, this is an interesting thing to come back to... Yea, I had problems with some people before I left earlier, and my fellow DRG folks know about it. Things got personal, and it's looking like things are getting personal yet again around here. There are things to do to fix it, but everyone is going to have to take a step back and think about it first. No, Logan shouldn't have posted the "dick pic", and a suspension is suitable. The Moderators and Seth seem to have a communication break down. Pick up the phone and fix it. It might be hard, and everyone will have to make sacrifices, but get it done. If too many people are really worried about favoritism, then set up a Board to vote on the winners, or just accept the fact that everyone is going to have favoritism for someone or something. It's not always on purpose. Then get back to the game we call "efed" and roleplay, write matches, and do what we've all done since we got into this whatever-it-is. You know, I am aware of your stances on a lot of things in life and while I don't agree with them, I'll just say that I respect and envy your ability to always come into these conversations and be a gent about shit. You're alright in my book, TUB.
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Post by Corey Black on May 8, 2016 20:04:11 GMT -5
The thing between Rod and I was a casual day in one of our daily conversations. We talk and say and do bizarre shit to one another but that's how our friendship works. This is a communication breakdown at its finest. I might be flipping tables here, but why the fuck is Rod coming to other people supremely pissed about this stuff if that's just your friendship? Why the hell is this even a conversation if everything is a-ok? Are people making shit up to make you and Rod look bad? I'm genuinely confused and really - really tired of it.
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